TrespassersW
Veteran
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 990
Location: North Carolina, USA
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 Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Toxic wrote: | | I have plenty of respect for it. I just don't think it needs to be followed dot-on-the-i, cross-on-the-t strictly. |
Really? Okay, let's say you're right. That's just fine when the feds decide to do something you happen to want them to do and for which the Constitution does not give them power. What stops them when the thing they want to do is something with which you don't agree? This hits at the core of my principal complaint with our federal government in its current form; when we cede to the sitting administration the right to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution they want to follow and which they want to ignore, we lose any real power to control them at all.
| Toxic wrote: | | And you're both wrong. Go read the Constitution. It's not simply to restrain the government. |
This sounds like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. The Constitution spells out the limits of federal power, and also details in some ways what rights are retained by the people and the states. ALL OF WHICH DEFINES THE LIMITS ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
The people don't need a document to tell them they are free; we were already free. The government needs a document to remind them that we must remain so. |
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Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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There are grave implications on our freedoms and security if the states cave to the federal government in the real id scandal
the states must not be bullied into accepting more federal government encraochment on states rights |
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cornopean
Forum Elder
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3576
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Toxic wrote: | | Foreign aid, welfare, and affirmative action are restricting speech? |
Foreign aid, welfare, AA and McCain Feingold are all contrary to the constitution. The constitution does not give the federal govt permission to legislate with regards to these matters. but libs just reinterpret the Constitution to make it say what they want it to say. it's a scandal. |
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cornopean
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3576
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Anym wrote: | | Please tell me where the defense of Marriage Act, the Patriot Act, the U.S. military, have their place in the constitution. |
DOMA is not in the constitution. DOMA is not a law. It is the people trying to AMEND the constitution.
The Patriot Act falls under the same heading as the US military.
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
but to be frank, I dont know why you would be concerned about finding justification for things in the Constitution. Libs haven't the slightest concern to be constitutional. |
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cornopean
Forum Elder
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3576
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TrespassersW wrote: |
The people don't need a document to tell them they are free; we were already free. The government needs a document to remind them that we must remain so. |
outstanding quote! it will go over most of the heads of the people on this forum. (and I mean that as no insult; most people on this forum do not have liberty as one of their highest values)
How many of you would support this legislation? i think it would make a mockery of most laws passed in our congress.
"The Enumerated Powers Act is a proposed bill in the United States House of Representatives which would require that any law passed by Congress cite the provisions of the constitution that gives them the power to pass such legislation."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumerated_Powers_Act |
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TrespassersW
Veteran
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 990
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Turk wrote: | | There are grave implications on our freedoms and security if the states cave to the federal government in the real id scandal |
Can you list them for me? It's impossible to determine whether I agree or disagree with a general statement absent of any particulars.
| Turk wrote: | | the states must not be bullied into accepting more federal government encraochment on states rights |
Which specific rights are being encroached upon in this case? Again, be specific, so that I and others can have some chance of determining the value of your position. Thanks. |
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Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| TrespassersW wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | There are grave implications on our freedoms and security if the states cave to the federal government in the real id scandal |
Can you list them for me? It's impossible to determine whether I agree or disagree with a general statement absent of any particulars.
| Turk wrote: | | the states must not be bullied into accepting more federal government encraochment on states rights |
Which specific rights are being encroached upon in this case? Again, be specific, so that I and others can have some chance of determining the value of your position. Thanks. |
A tax to move about in your own country |
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Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| cornopean wrote: | | Anym wrote: | | Please tell me where the defense of Marriage Act, the Patriot Act, the U.S. military, have their place in the constitution. |
DOMA is not in the constitution. DOMA is not a law. It is the people trying to AMEND the constitution.
The Patriot Act falls under the same heading as the US military.
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
but to be frank, I dont know why you would be concerned about finding justification for things in the Constitution. Libs haven't the slightest concern to be constitutional. |
The patriot act undermines the rule of law and your basic rights |
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TrespassersW
Veteran
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 990
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Turk wrote: | | TrespassersW wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | There are grave implications on our freedoms and security if the states cave to the federal government in the real id scandal |
Can you list them for me? It's impossible to determine whether I agree or disagree with a general statement absent of any particulars. |
A tax to move about in your own country |
Wow. I hadn't thought of that! You're right; we should be terrified for our freedom and security! A new tax! 
(Which of course it isn't, but that only makes it funnier!) |
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Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| TrespassersW wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | TrespassersW wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | There are grave implications on our freedoms and security if the states cave to the federal government in the real id scandal |
Can you list them for me? It's impossible to determine whether I agree or disagree with a general statement absent of any particulars. |
A tax to move about in your own country |
Wow. I hadn't thought of that! You're right; we should be terrified for our freedom and security! A new tax!
(Which of course it isn't, but that only makes it funnier!) |
Should be laugh now all you want i guarentee on a few years you wont be, if things keep going the way that they are. |
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cornopean
Forum Elder
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3576
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| Toxic wrote: | | Go read the Constitution. It's not simply to restrain the government. |
shall we read the guy who wrote the constitution?
"But what is government itself but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed: and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions." (James Madison, Federalist 51). |
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Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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The constitution was founded on the federalist papers
james madison is only one person
what about alex hamilto n and john jay
i think that people need to read the federalist papers to get an understanding of the constitution |
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TrespassersW
Veteran
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 990
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Turk wrote: | | Should be laugh now all you want i guarentee on a few years you wont be, if things keep going the way that they are. |
Just curious, but is English a second language for you? |
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Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| TrespassersW wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | Should be laugh now all you want i guarentee on a few years you wont be, if things keep going the way that they are. |
Just curious, but is English a second language for you? |
I speak american pal no english spoken here |
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Toxic
Forum Elder
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 1568
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Turk wrote: | | TrespassersW wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | Should be laugh now all you want i guarentee on a few years you wont be, if things keep going the way that they are. |
Just curious, but is English a second language for you? |
I speak american pal no english spoken here |
Speechless. |
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