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exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
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 Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Lester wrote: |
exton- I don't care whether it's revenge or justice, killing is killing, and it's wrong. Is there any other punishment that involves something that would be a crime for anyone else? |
Yes. Jail time.
If you locked someone in a room for years at a time against their will, you'd be in violation of the law.
A crime is a crime because it causes harm to society, not because of the simple physical description of its action.
Killing in some contexts is bad, and in other contexts is acceptable. Just like imprisoning people. |
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exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ringwormbettie wrote: | I would rather see someone that killed my best friend be starved to death in an abandoned well then get a shot and die. I like the well idea (or something like it) because it would make me feel better and it would save money. Not to mention we feed America's love of violence and hate! Win win situation! If we had the money to keep every murderer in prison until they die then I would be fine with letting them rot. But it would be nice if they could get ass raped and could only eat stale bread and water.
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And it is that bloodthirst that makes you as morally wrong as any criminal. |
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Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | | Lester wrote: |
exton- I don't care whether it's revenge or justice, killing is killing, and it's wrong. Is there any other punishment that involves something that would be a crime for anyone else? |
Yes. Jail time.
If you locked someone in a room for years at a time against their will, you'd be in violation of the law.
A crime is a crime because it causes harm to society, not because of the simple physical description of its action.
Killing in some contexts is bad, and in other contexts is acceptable. Just like imprisoning people. |
Citizens arrest, I can lock you up in my basement if you tell me you just killed someone, and then i call the police, just because it might take me a while to reach the phone..... |
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exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| Lester wrote: |
Citizens arrest, I can lock you up in my basement if you tell me you just killed someone, and then i call the police, just because it might take me a while to reach the phone..... |
Hah-hah. You know what i mean. |
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BigRed
Newbie
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: Re: Stop feeling guilty about the death penalty by abolishin |
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Besides the fact that this is almost criminally sloppy, the real issue ofcourse goes back to the fact that the death penalty should be considered cruel and unusual punishment in all cases.
The death penalty isn't pragmatic because it does nothing to reduce crime, it costs way too much money to keep a person on death row, and overfloods the court system. It often also has the opposite effects it's intended to produce, being that violent crime rates seem to increase in areas that have the death penalty and in cases like the execution of Saddam Hussein, the death penalty can turn criminals into some kind of hero and martyr or at least increase feelings of sympathy in some for the criminal, who would otherwise feel very different.
But besides that, it's morally hypocritical and on some level at least, most people seem to be aware of this, hence the repeated attempts to keep making it as least painful and as short as possible.
[/quote]
Oh brother . . .
Cruel and unusual? That lacks any merit. How is killing a convicted killer cruel? How is it unusual?
Nonsense.
You did not just use Saddam as an example. That’s ridiculous. If you are going to debate the death penalty do it with some sense.
It's not exclusively an "expense" b/c they are capital punishment caes - it's the prosecutorial expensive, which is 3-5 times more than a life sentence case and I suspect only 15% are actually executed. Your logic is flawed.
Overflows the court system? If they aren't tried under capital punishment it is very likely they will be tried under a "life sentence" - again, a bad argument.
Maybe you should try debating the death penalty from a perspective that it is inherently biased and racially prejudiced - you'll sway far more that way. |
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Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | | Lester wrote: |
Citizens arrest, I can lock you up in my basement if you tell me you just killed someone, and then i call the police, just because it might take me a while to reach the phone..... |
Hah-hah. You know what i mean. |
I do, to an extent, because the death penalty really is one of, if not the, only thing the government does that it doesn't allow people to do, in america anyways, which is what we're talking about.
Big Red- Saddam's execution was a farce, it certainly made me more sympathetic to his plight. |
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Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Also, welcome to you Big Red. |
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exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Lester wrote: |
I do, to an extent, because the death penalty really is one of, if not the, only thing the government does that it doesn't allow people to do, in america anyways, which is what we're talking about. |
....and like i siad, that's obviously not true.
| Quote: | | Saddam's execution was a farce, it certainly made me more sympathetic to his plight. |
Pfft, don't give me that bullshit. No one is sympathetic to saddam's "plight".
The execution was a farce because it was conducted in a hasty and uncivilized manner. I don't see how that has any bearing on saddam. |
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Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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It really is, you are not going to got to jail for kidnapping if you imprison someone who you have taped killing someone, but you will go to jail for killing the guy who ran over your girlfriend.
The dead lawyers, the removed judges, the resigned judges, the denial of access to evidence for the defence, saddam was doing what he thought was best for his country, of course I'm sympathetic to him, his way was working, albeit slowly, but he stood up and fought it when another country tried to denounce his countries sovereignty, I doubt Bush would be as adamant if america was subject to a 'police action'. |
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Anym
Forum Elder
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 2562
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: |
Pfft, don't give me that bullshit. No one is sympathetic to saddam's "plight".
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The Sunni's are. |
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exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| Lester wrote: |
saddam was doing what he thought was best for his country, of course I'm sympathetic to him |
Saddam did what he thought was best for saddam.He really wasn't a nice guy. You might consider reading about him a bit.
Moreover, good intentions are irrelevent. |
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Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | | Lester wrote: |
saddam was doing what he thought was best for his country, of course I'm sympathetic to him |
Saddam did what he thought was best for saddam.He really wasn't a nice guy. You might consider reading about him a bit.
Moreover, good intentions are irrelevent. |
He really didn't, he could have done a lot worse, he could have committed genocide to the extent that is going on right now, he was keeping the order, there were insurgents in his country, he stopped them from overthrowing the government, thats what any government would do.
Besides, he was a human being, that alone is enough for sympathy. |
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