So i had to go to the hospital last night

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shankarsingam
Forum Elder

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: So i had to go to the hospital last night

My wife slipped climbing through our kitchen window(dont ask) and slammed her head on the concrete patio, she then had headaches, got dizzy and her muscles in her neck start to stiffen. She went to the university health center(free), who in turn told her to go to the emergency room.

I get a call from her asking me to take her to Kaiser Permanente ER(our HMO). I left work and took her knowing it would be some hours.

After a 6 hour wait in the emergency room, she was absolutley fed up and wanted to leave against my advice. People were going to the receptionist and complaining. One mother whose son had a broken arm was frantic at the 6 hour wait, while her young son cried in pain.
Another hour passed by and i finally went to the receptionist and lodged my compalaint, 20 minutes later we got in, it felt like we won the lottery.

3 hours later, we emerged from the emergency room, my wife doped up on anti-inflammatory and pain killers with slight case of whiplash. I paid the $150 co-pay, $60 bottle of vicadins. Along with the $300/month I usually pay even though i dont use the hospital, I felt somewhat ripped off by this company, but had no choice in the matter.

Now, I ask the cons, is this what you call the best healthcare in the world? How is this better then medicare/socialized health and what is your proof?

Patriot66
Not a Newbie

Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 115

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject:

First, sorry about your wife and glad it isnt serious. My problem is that nobody can show me how socialized helthcare will be better and where the money will come from. Dont say from the war cause why didnt we do this before the war? Ive also heard about people coming from Canada for specialized care. Why is that? If it will work, I will be all for it.

John_Quincy
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: Healthcare

Man, I couldn't believe what I just read. It sounded like you went to a 3rd world Clinic or at best the County Health Clinic, where indefinite waits are customary. I guess Kaiser finally made it to Hell. Back in the day, Doctors, let's say would earn 75.00 per patient so on a given day would earn a descent living. With the reform, Qwaks now would earn 20.00 a head. Hence, Docs are needing to see 3.5 X's the nunber of patients to earn the same amount of money as previous. Big hospitals like Kaiser still maintan the name and the reputation for being a self sufficient Establishment but in reality it's all a facade. No competant Qwak wants to bust His/Her ass for peanuts. So they leave Kaiser per say, and Move to Las Vegas with their new Act, Juggling 3 to 4 people around like fucking bowling pins. Leaving the hospitals a bit understaffed and overloaded with clients.

cornopean
Forum Elder

Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3576

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: So i had to go to the hospital last night

shankarsingam wrote:

My wife slipped climbing through our kitchen window(dont ask)

we used to lock our keys in the house. then we had to crawl in the window to get in the house so I understand completely.

Quote:

Now, I ask the cons, is this what you call the best healthcare in the world? How is this better then Medicare/socialized health and what is your proof?

First, it isn't better than socialized health care. this is exactly what socialized health care is like.
Second, you'd better be glad that you live in the US. b/c in the US, you can do something about it. you can go to another hospital's emergency room next time.
It's interesting you raise this issue b/c recently I have been noticing signs around town. these signs are purchased by hospitals who are bragging about how short their emergency room wait times are. So there is the competition that is going to make your experience the exception and not the rule. You do understand tho....that your experience is the norm in Canada and other places...?

exton
Forum Elder

Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: So i had to go to the hospital last night

cornopean wrote:

Second, you'd better be glad that you live in the US. b/c in the US, you can do something about it. you can go to another hospital's emergency room next time.

That's true, but then, no one is proposing that we take away that choice.

Quote:

You do understand tho....that your experience is the norm in Canada and other places...?

And you do realize that canada doesn't have "socialized" health care, right?

capitalist
Known Associate

Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 293

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject:

You think a 6 hour wait is bad? Socialized health care will provide much, much longer wait times and eventually shortages and rationing.

Why do people (socialized health care advocates) keep buying into the idea of socialism when we have seen it fail time and time again?

When people buy things with their own money they are careful. When people buy things with someone else's money, they are careless. When people can get healthcare at the expense of the taxpayers they will be get it even if there is no serious issue.

If socialized health care is such a good idea, then why isn't socialized food? Why do we let supermarkets operate freely? Surely if healthcare is a "right" than food is right as well?

capitalist
Known Associate

Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 293

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: So i had to go to the hospital last night

exton wrote:

That's true, but then, no one is proposing that we take away that choice.

In essence, that's exactly what pro-socialized health care people propose. They may not explicitly say that, but it is an unavoidable result of a socialist health care system.

There would no reason for hospitals to compete against each other. There would be no "we have shorter wait times" ads. When you take away the profit motive from free enterprises, you also take away the competition motive, which has damaging effects on consumers. But wait! I though socialized health care was good for consumers?? Rolling Eyes

cornopean
Forum Elder

Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3576

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: So i had to go to the hospital last night

Quote:

[quote="exton"]

cornopean wrote:

Second, you'd better be glad that you live in the US. b/c in the US, you can do something about it. you can go to another hospital's emergency room next time.

That's true, but then, no one is proposing that we take away that choice.

I would assert that is exactly what the democratic plans would do. do you think there would still be billboards as I described under Hillary or Barack's plan?

Quote:

You do understand tho....that your experience is the norm in Canada and other places...?

And you do realize that canada doesn't have "socialized" health care, right?

come on. give up this hair splitting. it is socialist.

exton
Forum Elder

Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: So i had to go to the hospital last night

cornopean wrote:

Quote:

That's true, but then, no one is proposing that we take away that choice.

I would assert that is exactly what the democratic plans would do.

What makes you think that?

Quote:

do you think there would still be billboards as I described under Hillary or Barack's plan?

Beats me.

Quote:

You do understand tho....that your experience is the norm in Canada and other places...?

And you do realize that canada doesn't have "socialized" health care, right?

come on. give up this hair splitting. it is socialist.

Except it isn't, not by the definition of the word.

There's no point in using a word if you're not going to use it correctly.

exton
Forum Elder

Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: So i had to go to the hospital last night

capitalist wrote:

exton wrote:

That's true, but then, no one is proposing that we take away that choice.

In essence, that's exactly what pro-socialized health care people propose. They may not explicitly say that, but it is an unavoidable result of a socialist health care system.

People propose universal healthcare, but that's not the same as a "socialist" healthcare system.

capitalist
Known Associate

Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 293

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: So i had to go to the hospital last night

exton wrote:

Beats me.

Don't pretend you don't know the answer. Of course there would be no billboards or ads because there is no incentive to compete under socialism.

exton
Forum Elder

Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject:

Yeah, but...there's no proposal of socialism at work here. You're arguing against something that no one is supporting.

Toxic
Forum Elder

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 1560

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: So i had to go to the hospital last night

capitalist wrote:

exton wrote:

Beats me.

Don't pretend you don't know the answer. Of course there would be no billboards or ads because there is no incentive to compete under socialism.

http://www.lpgf.com/files/LEEP.....lboard.jpg

Of course there are no billboards under socialism!

shankarsingam
Forum Elder

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject:

Patriot66 wrote:

The number of people coming from Canada is far less significant than the amount of americans whom now partake in the latest trend of medical tourism.

shankarsingam
Forum Elder

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject:

capitalist wrote:

You think a 6 hour wait is bad? Socialized health care will provide much, much longer wait times and eventually shortages and rationing.

Source?

Quote:

Why do people (socialized health care advocates) keep buying into the idea of socialism when we have seen it fail time and time again?

Source?

Quote:

When people buy things with their own money they are careful. When people buy things with someone else's money, they are careless. When people can get healthcare at the expense of the taxpayers they will be get it even if there is no serious issue.

Source?

Quote:

If socialized health care is such a good idea, then why isn't socialized food? Why do we let supermarkets operate freely? Surely if healthcare is a "right" than food is right as well?

Apples and oranges

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