Nazi Germany religion

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Nazi Germany religion

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What do you think the majority of the religious "nazi ideology" was?

	Christian/Catholic
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Guido
Newbie

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 33

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject:

Spider Jerusalem wrote:

Hitler based alot of his dogma on Nietzche. A German philosopher who had a very bleak Darwin like view on life. Sortof a Christian who lost all faith and hope.

Athiesm wasn't as strong as now, so this was the closest thing to it. And look what happens when you give securalists a bit of power. I don't think all athiests are evil meglomaniacs. But they're out there. And their more dangerous then religious terrorists because of the fact they put themself above thier fellow man. They don't want you to serve God, they want to be God.

Your right about Hitler and his Nietzsche influence. BUT! I would not call Nietzsche's philosophy bleak! I find his work very compelling. Religious terrorists put themselves above their 'fellow men' also, they think its in their right as a 'holy warrior' - if you will - to take another mans life in the name of their god; how can you say that that’s not in any way a feeling of superiority?

Spider Jerusalem
Not a Newbie

Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 73

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject:

Fair enough, but in a way the terrorists are lieing to themselves. Where as secular terrorists like Hitler just blatantly see themself as supirior.

Terrorists believe they are a vessel of Allah's will. I think it's bullcrap, but I sympathize for thier undieing loyalty. Put to constructive use, it could do so much good. If they put half that energy into building thier society up rather then breaking other societies down. They'd have an Arab utopian.

Same with securlar terrorism. Egoism doesn't have to nesscarely be bad. Hell, look at me. I'm so full of myself I have the audasity to call people raunchy sluts without a twinge of second-thought. But my egoism leads to the ultimate desire to bring others confidence up as well. Narscism is a thin veil of inriority complex. In the end I don't want to be supirior to others, I want others to be supirior to me. I want people to develop better mannerisms, better intelligence, better relationships. It's kindof complicated to explain how you can feel confident whilest feeling infrior, but it works.

Guido
Newbie

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 33

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:12 am Post subject:

Maybe everyone is lying to themselves? Besides, Hitler couldn’t have seen himself as totally superior, as he had his Aryans, who, as you know, were supposed to be thee most superior of all races, and as you know also - Hitler was not one.

The way I see it is: loyalty to yourself over all, to be able to control yourself and to have self respect enough to see you content. The individual is, in most cases, like a canvas to improve upon. You need not be subordinate as long as you know you’re not perfect, and you're able to understand that to be perfect is not entirely impossible.

grassrooter
Newbie

Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 7

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:57 am Post subject:

Spider Jerusalem wrote:

And even if immaginary, I'd rather serve God. Because God is supirior (in theory). Where as goverment is just composed of men like me.

So you'd rather serve an imaginary being? I prefer a third path; I take nobody's word to be truth outright, and I try to serve the people around me, not as masters but as friends. Atheists can have moral codes, it's just that those codes are based on rational thought instead of belief in a God that may or may not exist.

Spider Jerusalem
Not a Newbie

Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 73

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:58 am Post subject:

Well duh.

Oolon Colluphid
Not a Newbie

Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:59 am Post subject:

grassrooter wrote:

Spider Jerusalem wrote:

And even if immaginary, I'd rather serve God. Because God is supirior (in theory). Where as goverment is just composed of men like me.

Thanks for responding to that. I figured if I did it would end very badly.... We all know that superman is superior to atheists anyways, pshh. Rolling Eyes

Lester
Forum Elder

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:50 am Post subject:

Nietszche's Superman??

Damn I love this new quick reply thing.

Guido
Newbie

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 33

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject:

Wow, me too!

Nietszches superman is a very interesting idea.

Oolon Colluphid
Not a Newbie

Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Florida

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:50 am Post subject:

Guido wrote:

Wow, me too!

Nietszches superman is a very interesting idea.

"Superman, according to Nietzsche has reached a state of being where he is no longer affected by "pity, suffering, tolerence of the weak, the power of the soul over the body, the belief in an afterlife, the corruption of modern values (Nietzsche's Overman: Blueprint for the Antichrist Superstar)." Superman is constantly changing and in a state of rebirth and growth. He determines what is good and what is evil, not allowing religion or society to determine these things for him."

Idea

Check it out!!

http://personal.ecu.edu/mccart.....nowles.htm

Guido
Newbie

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 33

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:04 am Post subject:

This person has done their research Cool

Oolon Colluphid
Not a Newbie

Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Florida

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject:

grassrooter wrote:

I do think Hitler was effectively atheist, and I don't like being called uninformed. You say that we must seperate Hitler the person from the Nazi movement. Very true, and there were many true Christians in the Nazi party. I think Hitler was not one of them. We'll never know because we can't ask Hitler or read his mind, but quotes from "Mein Kampf" and his church attendance hardly prove anything...... He was a crafty bastard and he knew there was nothing to gain and much to lose by alienating the majority of the German public.

Okay, I can say in your case, it can't be classified it as being 'un'informed. I apologize.

Then what is there, other than quotes from “Table Talk”, that lead you to believe he was an atheist? There is more evidence to the contrary.If it's because of a "socialist movement" then you haven't looked at the whole picture. If you can take a few quotes from table talk and apply them to your entire conclusion, then you must also take the following quotes, also from table talk, into serious consideration.

“Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism the destroyer. Nevertheless, the Galilean, who later was called Christ, intended something quite different. He must be regarded as a popular leader who too up His position against Jewry. Galilee was a colony where the Romans had probably installed Gallic legionaries, and it's certain that Jesus was not a Jew. The Jews, by the way, regarded Him as the son of a whore-- of a whore and a Roman soldier.

The decisive falsification of Jesus's doctrine was the work of St. Paul. He gave himself to this work with subtlety and for purposes of personal exploitation. For the Galiean's object was to liberate His country from Jewish oppression. He set Himself against Jewish capitalism, and that's why the Jews liquidated Him.”
-Hitler [Table-Talk, p. 76]

“Christ was an Aryan, and St. Paul used his doctrine to mobilise the criminal underworld and thus organise a proto-Bolsevism.”
-Hitler [Table-Talk, p. 143]

“We don't want to educate anyone in atheism.” Table-Talk [p. 6]

“An uneducated man, on the other hand, runs the risk of going over to atheism (which is a return to the state of the animal)” Table-Talk [p. 59]

I’m not arguing that Christianity was the reason for his rise to power, nor that it was the “main inspiration” for his actions. The argument is that religion did in fact play a role in the support of Hitler, was part of a held “ideology” of the Nazi party, and was a belief of Hitlers. Whether Hitler adhered to Christian doctrines can be disputed, but it is certain that he held a belief in a God and thought he was doing good to His will. Nowhere does anything lead us to believe that the Nazi party or Hitler held an “atheist ideology”, nor does it show that Hitler himself was an atheist. Just the term itself is flawed. Where in history has atheism lead to the eradication of a race?

If you can find one, please let me know.

Racial hatred of Jews and the idea that the Aryan race is superior can be directly applied to religious dogma. I have not seen this come from any other held ideology other than a religious one. It is certainly not an “atheist ideology”.

grassrooter wrote:

I think that in many ways trying to shift most of the blame to religion is misleading and dangerous. I strongly believe that it was nationalism, which goes hand in hand with racism, xenophobia and faschism, that was the root cause for Hitler's rise.
Yet it's that same nationalism which in many places is applauded as "patriotism" and is regaining popularity in many places today.

Fine. I’m not saying anything to the contrary. But at the same time I’m trying to make it clear to you that dismissing religions role (or just flat out denying it) in this historical event is the danger here.

Spider Jerusalem
Not a Newbie

Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 73

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject:

Oolon Colluphid wrote:

So I'm Neitzche's Superman? That's fucking scary. Razz

Lester
Forum Elder

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:13 am Post subject:

Now that I think about it, Nietzsche's Superman has all the qualities that Satanists(the real ones, not the crazy I'm just doing this cuz I hate God ones) desire and strive for... hmmm...

joeyjock
Forum Elder

Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 2108
Location: Fort Lauderdale

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Nazi Germany religion

Oolon Colluphid wrote:

Another user of this forum said this about the Germans and the nazi party.

"An overwhelimng amount of germans in WW2 beleived in the atheist nazi ideology"

I find it hard to believe that people can actually be twisting history in this manner.

What is the opinion of others on this subject?

...and what are we to gleen from the knowledge that the Nazi's believed or dis-believed in any sort of religion?
Are you saying that believeing or dis-believeing in in one kind of religion brings you further down a path toward Nazi-ism??
Then by that form of thought are you avocating being forced to believe in one form of religion or another? Which happens to be the very hallmark of a fasciist society

Oolon Colluphid
Not a Newbie

Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 133
Location: Florida

Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Nazi Germany religion

joeyjock wrote:

...and what are we to gleen from the knowledge that the Nazi's believed or dis-believed in any sort of religion?

gleen?

What you should take from the knowledge is historical accuracy.

The reason for the thread was to find out just how many people have been subject to the historical revisionism that is apparently taking place at the hands of religious leaders/believers who are twisting things their way to bury the truth about what happened. It's a known fact that the Catholic church helped to support, and to cover up atrocities carried out by the Nazi party.

joeyjock wrote:

Are you saying that believeing or dis-believeing in in one kind of religion brings you further down a path toward Nazi-ism??

That's ridiculous. What I'm saying is exactly what I said in the opening post; I find it hard to believe that people can actually be twisting history in this manner.

joeyjock wrote:

Then by that form of thought are you avocating being forced to believe in one form of religion or another? Which happens to be the very hallmark of a fasciist society

You mean like the way the evangelicals in the U.S. are advocating Christianity and a "Nation under God" as the foundation of, and the future salvation of our country?... Or the way islamic extremists are waging a "jihad" against the infidels of the west? Rolling Eyes

Hmmm.. Maybe believing in one form of religion or another in general leads us further down a path of self destruction and into a fascist society.

Seriously though - No, you missed the point of the thread.

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