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IrishOutlaw
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Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Lester wrote: | Many many???
Name ten that moved from lower class to upper class. |
Dave Thomas - Wendys
Sam Walton - Wal Mart
Richard King - King Ranch (who also by the way was forced into child labor)
Bob Lorsch - Invented pre-paid phone cards
Carlos Slim Helu - Mexican Business man (also child labor "survivor")
Richard Desmond - British Publisher
Li Ka-Shin - Chinese business man.
Henry Ford - Industrialist
Andrew Carnegie - Industrialist
And, finally, how bout one of my heros, Johnny Cash.
Not to mention the scores of people that built the US and US industry from the ground up, despite a lack of formalized education.
If wealth was tied to education, the US would be one of the poorest industrialized countries in the world. And, if you say that education is related to wealth, then everyone with and education would be rich, which we know isn't true either.
We should also look at public vs. private education. Private schools turn out statistically superior students, with a lower drop out rate and a higher secondary education rate. The government SUCKS at education, along with every other thing they do that is outside of their actual scope. We are brainwashed from nearly infancy that education is the answer, and I agree that it is of the upmost, but to say without and education you can't achieve is unfair. It is really unfair to American students, who are receiving one of the most expensive and least effective educations in the world. |
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ZackH
Known Associate
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| IrishOutlaw wrote: | | Lester wrote: | Many many???
Name ten that moved from lower class to upper class. |
Dave Thomas - Wendys
Sam Walton - Wal Mart
Richard King - King Ranch (who also by the way was forced into child labor)
Bob Lorsch - Invented pre-paid phone cards
Carlos Slim Helu - Mexican Business man (also child labor "survivor")
Richard Desmond - British Publisher
Li Ka-Shin - Chinese business man.
Henry Ford - Industrialist
Andrew Carnegie - Industrialist
And, finally, how bout one of my heros, Johnny Cash.
Not to mention the scores of people that built the US and US industry from the ground up, despite a lack of formalized education.
If wealth was tied to education, the US would be one of the poorest industrialized countries in the world. And, if you say that education is related to wealth, then everyone with and education would be rich, which we know isn't true either.
We should also look at public vs. private education. Private schools turn out statistically superior students, with a lower drop out rate and a higher secondary education rate. The government SUCKS at education, along with every other thing they do that is outside of their actual scope. We are brainwashed from nearly infancy that education is the answer, and I agree that it is of the upmost, but to say without and education you can't achieve is unfair. It is really unfair to American students, who are receiving one of the most expensive and least effective educations in the world. |
I would also add just about every sucessfull comedian, actor/actress, and singer/bands. Although actors do come from rich families as well and lately some singers. |
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Anym
Forum Elder
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 2562
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Yea but for every Sam Walton(who became rich of of illegal immigrants and Chinese slave labor) theres much more poor, and failures. |
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IrishOutlaw
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Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Anym wrote: | | Yea but for every Sam Walton(who became rich of of illegal immigrants and Chinese slave labor) theres much more poor, and failures. |
Some people may be poor, but I don't think it is fair to call them failures. The point is, if someone from a country like mexico can come up from being a street urchin to being one of the top ten richest people in the world, anyone can. (Carlos Slim Helu)
Li Ka-Shin was a peasant in a communist country and did the same thing.
If these two guys can come from nothing in a disadvantaged country, there is no reason (other than not wanting to do the work) that someone can't do it here. And they do, all the time.
It is a sad commentary on how effective our government indoctrinations are, so that every problem we see in the world, our first thought isn't "What can I do about that?" its, "What can my government do about that?". Didn't Kennedy say something along those lines? |
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Xerxes
Forum Elder
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 1564
Location: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| IrishOutlaw wrote: | | Not to mention the scores of people that built the US and US industry from the ground up, despite a lack of formalized education. |
Like blacks, Chinese, prisoners, Irish and Italian immigrants or just good old-fashioned "Cheap Labor" |
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ZackH
Known Associate
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Bottom line is, there HAS to be poor people otherwise a society cannot function. Somoene has to do the dirty jobs, it sucks but that's reality. We all have our own crosses to bare. A billionare is no more happy then a person that makes 30,000 dollars a year. The best thing you can do is just try to imprint the mentality onto your kids that they can do better if they work hard enough, and help them understand that life is not fair and that some people have to work harder then others to get the same things. It's a huge craps shoot and someone has to land on double zero. |
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exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| TrespassersW wrote: | | Lester wrote: | | ...if you take away government sponsored programs for education those who are poor will always be poor. |
This notion flies in the face of the fact that many, many people throughout history got very, very rich in the absence of said programs. |
As a percentage of the population, that number of people is very, very small. |
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IrishOutlaw
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Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Xerxes wrote: | | IrishOutlaw wrote: | | Not to mention the scores of people that built the US and US industry from the ground up, despite a lack of formalized education. |
Like blacks, Chinese, prisoners, Irish and Italian immigrants or just good old-fashioned "Cheap Labor" |
Yes, exactly like them. Other than the slavery issue with the blacks (which is the most UN-Libertarian thing there is), those other people were happy to have those jobs. It was long hours, little pay, nasty food, and very dangerous (I am mainly talking about building the railroad, since that is the time my family immigrated here). It was told to us over and over in my family that if there was a dangerous job to do, they always sent the Irish. Not because the Irish are hardcore (even though we are), but because they were the least valued among the groups you mentioned. And my great grandfather said his father was HAPPY to have the work, because it was about 1000% better then what was happening back in Ireland.
The same today. Immigrants from other countries are more than happy to take the jobs that don't pay shit, because it is 1000% better then where they are from. Prisoners don't have to be paid anything for the work they do while they are incarcerated, and the waiting list to get those jobs is huge. Some prisons pay between .05c and hour to .25c an hour, and the prisoners are glad to have it. |
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exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ZackH wrote: | | Bottom line is, there HAS to be poor people otherwise a society cannot function. Somoene has to do the dirty jobs, it sucks but that's reality. |
No, it is more correct to say that there are a number of different services that society requires in order to function.
There is no reason that humans have to be the ones to do these tasks. |
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IrishOutlaw
Newbie
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | | ZackH wrote: | | Bottom line is, there HAS to be poor people otherwise a society cannot function. Somoene has to do the dirty jobs, it sucks but that's reality. |
No, it is more correct to say that there are a number of different services that society requires in order to function.
There is no reason that humans have to be the ones to do these tasks. |
Where do we order the robots? |
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Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| IrishOutlaw wrote: | | Lester wrote: | Many many???
Name ten that moved from lower class to upper class. |
Dave Thomas - Wendys
Sam Walton - Wal Mart
Richard King - King Ranch (who also by the way was forced into child labor)
Bob Lorsch - Invented pre-paid phone cards
Carlos Slim Helu - Mexican Business man (also child labor "survivor")
Richard Desmond - British Publisher
Li Ka-Shin - Chinese business man.
Henry Ford - Industrialist
Andrew Carnegie - Industrialist
And, finally, how bout one of my heros, Johnny Cash.
Not to mention the scores of people that built the US and US industry from the ground up, despite a lack of formalized education.
If wealth was tied to education, the US would be one of the poorest industrialized countries in the world. And, if you say that education is related to wealth, then everyone with and education would be rich, which we know isn't true either.
We should also look at public vs. private education. Private schools turn out statistically superior students, with a lower drop out rate and a higher secondary education rate. The government SUCKS at education, along with every other thing they do that is outside of their actual scope. We are brainwashed from nearly infancy that education is the answer, and I agree that it is of the upmost, but to say without and education you can't achieve is unfair. It is really unfair to American students, who are receiving one of the most expensive and least effective educations in the world. |
Every single one of these were below the poverty line? |
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IrishOutlaw
Newbie
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Lester wrote: |
Every single one of these were below the poverty line? |
Yes. And there are soooo many poor folks that got rich. |
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Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| Yet there are still poor people? Why is this? |
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ZackH
Known Associate
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | | ZackH wrote: | | Bottom line is, there HAS to be poor people otherwise a society cannot function. Somoene has to do the dirty jobs, it sucks but that's reality. |
No, it is more correct to say that there are a number of different services that society requires in order to function.
There is no reason that humans have to be the ones to do these tasks. |
Ok and where do people get jobs at? If Aritificial Intelligence can do all of the shitty jobs, then where can those that are replaced work? Unemployment is relatively high as it is, think if we eliminated all service jobs for humans. Unemployment would sky rocket. We can't pull jobs out of our asses. We can only make up so many pointless and useless jobs in the corporate world. Jobs like human resource and the millions of different associates there are proves that humanity is running out of real jobs.
Being poor is important to society. It's just the way it is, no amount of help or programs or socialism can ever stop that. The only thing we can do is allow education to be equal oppurtunity so that those on the bottom level that have the ambition to break out of their class can do so. |
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Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| ZackH wrote: | | exton wrote: | | ZackH wrote: | | Bottom line is, there HAS to be poor people otherwise a society cannot function. Somoene has to do the dirty jobs, it sucks but that's reality. |
No, it is more correct to say that there are a number of different services that society requires in order to function.
There is no reason that humans have to be the ones to do these tasks. |
Ok and where do people get jobs at? If Aritificial Intelligence can do all of the shitty jobs, then where can those that are replaced work? Unemployment is relatively high as it is, think if we eliminated all service jobs for humans. Unemployment would sky rocket. We can't pull jobs out of our asses. We can only make up so many pointless and useless jobs in the corporate world. Jobs like human resource and the millions of different associates there are proves that humanity is running out of real jobs.
Being poor is important to society. It's just the way it is, no amount of help or programs or socialism can ever stop that. The only thing we can do is allow education to be equal oppurtunity so that those on the bottom level that have the ambition to break out of their class can do so. |
The humans would get jobs servicing the robots and programming them. |
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