Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:09 am Post subject: |
 |
|
|
| They certainly don't, their states population density is tiny compared to the industrial areas. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fellfire
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| That's why the electoral college mechanism is good for the heartland states. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Indeed! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| fellfire wrote: | | That's why the electoral college mechanism is good for the heartland states. |
Yes it is good it keeps us a republic not a democracy when will people ever get that through their heads? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fellfire
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Turk wrote: | | fellfire wrote: | | That's why the electoral college mechanism is good for the heartland states. |
Yes it is good it keeps us a republic not a democracy when will people ever get that through their heads? |
We do not want to be a democracy (at least not in the sense of an Athenian Democracy). The founders created this country as a republic and, so far, no one has presented a compelling reason to change from that model that has lasted 231 years. People may not have it through their heads that we are a republic and not a democracy, but people generally like our form of government - there are no violent protests of the sort you see elsewhere in the world. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| fellfire wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | fellfire wrote: | | That's why the electoral college mechanism is good for the heartland states. |
Yes it is good it keeps us a republic not a democracy when will people ever get that through their heads? |
We do not want to be a democracy (at least not in the sense of an Athenian Democracy). The founders created this country as a republic and, so far, no one has presented a compelling reason to change from that model that has lasted 231 years. People may not have it through their heads that we are a republic and not a democracy, but people generally like our form of government - there are no violent protests of the sort you see elsewhere in the world. |
people sure want to change that |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fellfire
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Turk wrote: | | fellfire wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | fellfire wrote: | | That's why the electoral college mechanism is good for the heartland states. |
Yes it is good it keeps us a republic not a democracy when will people ever get that through their heads? |
We do not want to be a democracy (at least not in the sense of an Athenian Democracy). The founders created this country as a republic and, so far, no one has presented a compelling reason to change from that model that has lasted 231 years. People may not have it through their heads that we are a republic and not a democracy, but people generally like our form of government - there are no violent protests of the sort you see elsewhere in the world. |
people sure want to change that |
if by "people" you mean "Turk" then I would agree with you. Some people have argued against the electoral college, but no one has come up with a reason to do away with it other then pointing to some nebulous idea of our country being a democracy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| fellfire wrote: | | no one has come up with a reason to do away with it |
Al gore woulda been president.
(not that that's actually a good reason) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| exton wrote: | | fellfire wrote: | | no one has come up with a reason to do away with it |
Al gore woulda been president.
(not that that's actually a good reason) |
And Bush beat kerry through popular vote |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Turk wrote: | | exton wrote: |
(not that that's actually a good reason) |
And Bush beat kerry through popular vote |
Gore having been president for the four years previous, that particular matchup would never have occured. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fellfire
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| exton wrote: | | fellfire wrote: | | no one has come up with a reason to do away with it |
Al gore woulda been president.
(not that that's actually a good reason) |
understood. But it has been only three times in our history that the popular vote has not coincided with the electoral vote: 1876, 1888, 2000. Additionally, there are significant challenges to establishing a direct vote system. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lynx
Forum Elder
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 1182
Location: Cincinnati, OH
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| fellfire wrote: | | exton wrote: | | fellfire wrote: | | no one has come up with a reason to do away with it |
Al gore woulda been president.
(not that that's actually a good reason) |
understood. But it has been only three times in our history that the popular vote has not coincided with the electoral vote: 1876, 1888, 2000. Additionally, there are significant challenges to establishing a direct vote system. |
3/43 is still pathetic when we are the pioneers of free, modern democracy.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| I think what i'd like is a "vote for multiple candidates" system. That would help things greatly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fellfire
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| exton wrote: | | I think what i'd like is a "vote for multiple candidates" system. That would help things greatly. |
The "vote for multiple candidates" actually has a greater chance of getting a candidate that does not have the majority of the popular vote. Russia has such a system and Yeltsin was elected with a negative mandate.
If we went to direct popular vote, then with two parties you could come right out and see exactly who got the majority vote ... but what happens when you have the third party who takes some percentage of the vote.
For example, what if we get a vote spread like this:
democratic candidate:42%
republican candidate:48%
Independent candidate: 10%
Who got the majority of the popular vote there? The republican candidate gained 48% of the popular vote, but lost 52% of the popular vote? So you STILL do not get what you want, election by the majority. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| fellfire wrote: | | So you STILL do not get what you want, election by the majority. |
I actually do not want that. I just wish gore was president.
Like i said: it's not a good reason  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
