Turk
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 Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | | Turk wrote: |
Limit Power limit corruption |
That's like saying "hey, i know how we can stop fires from happening: let's get rid of all the oxygen in the atmosphere!"
Of course limiting power limits corruption, because corruptible people, and those who would corrupt them, are drawn to power.
Reducing overall power does not, in and of itself, solve the problem. It just avoids it. |
Reducing the size and power of government has all to do with keeping a balanced power in government
the people are the power when government power is limited |
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exton
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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The people are *always* the source of power. What a lot of people fail to realize is that "the people" rarely exercise this power effectively because they are not a homogenous group. Within the "people", there are a great many conflicting interests. And most of "the people" are kind of stupid.
And the trick isn't to severely limit the power of the government - it's to limit the power of the people/groups running it. Division of power, so as to make sure that no one person or group can have enough to do a lot of damage. |
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Turk
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | The people are *always* the source of power. What a lot of people fail to realize is that "the people" rarely exercise this power effectively because they are not a homogenous group. Within the "people", there are a great many conflicting interests. And most of "the people" are kind of stupid.
And the trick isn't to severely limit the power of the government - it's to limit the power of the people/groups running it. Division of power, so as to make sure that no one person or group can have enough to do a lot of damage. |
Limiting power is always to keep the majority in check and a minority that rules the masses
limits of power are necessary in a free society |
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exton
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 12:36 am Post subject: |
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There are certain things that society needs to do collectively in order to prosper. A certain amount of power must be exercised to do this.
You give the government less power than that, it's useless. Give it more power, and it's inefficient, and you run higher risks of abuse of that power.
Reducing power, just for the sake of reducing power, isn't sensible, in that power is necessary to get things done. |
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Turk
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | There are certain things that society needs to do collectively in order to prosper. A certain amount of power must be exercised to do this.
You give the government less power than that, it's useless. Give it more power, and it's inefficient, and you run higher risks of abuse of that power.
Reducing power, just for the sake of reducing power, isn't sensible, in that power is necessary to get things done. |
collectivism aka socialism that does not acknowledge individuals rights
no thanks |
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exton
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Collectivism, to one degree or another, is absolutely necessary for the survival and prosperity of society, if not the species as a whole.
That's what civilization is. A collective effort.
If you'd like to read about a non-collective human "society", read about hunter-gatherers. |
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Turk
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | Collectivism, to one degree or another, is absolutely necessary for the survival and prosperity of society, if not the species as a whole.
That's what civilization is. A collective effort.
If you'd like to read about a non-collective human "society", read about hunter-gatherers. |
Absolutely not necessary
Would you rather be free from tyranny
Or have the nice things in life with the cost of your freedom? |
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exton
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:16 am Post subject: |
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That's a false dilemma; there are many degrees of tyranny/freedom. Not just two.
I suspect that you aren't fully aware of what life without civilization means. |
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Turk
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | That's a false dilemma; there are many degrees of tyranny/freedom. Not just two.
I suspect that you aren't fully aware of what life without civilization means. |
freedom from corporate predators |
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exton
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quite the opposite. So-called "corporate predators" arise naturally. Resource-hoarding is an inescapable consequence of pure capitalism. |
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Turk
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | | Quite the opposite. So-called "corporate predators" arise naturally. Resource-hoarding is an inescapable consequence of pure capitalism. |
no not really
state capitalism aka socialism, corporatism are not free enterprise, goverment gets involved and creates uneven playing field and resources pool |
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exton
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:18 am Post subject: |
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So you believe that monopoly, oligopoly, price fixing, wage slavery, etc, are impossible without government intervention?
What do you think a "government" is, anyway? |
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Lester
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| A monopoly with price fixing, wage slavery etc.??? |
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Turk
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | So you believe that monopoly, oligopoly, price fixing, wage slavery, etc, are impossible without government intervention?
What do you think a "government" is, anyway? |
government politics with out limits of power
legalized coercion
most criminal in nature |
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exton
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| This is the internet, not poetry club. Don't speak in sentence fragments - its unreadable. |
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