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cornopean
Forum Elder
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3576
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 Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| shankarsingam wrote: | | White supremecists preach the killing or separating of the races, Wright does not. |
what white supremacists were you thinking of? I don't know of any but then I don't get out much. |
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Toxic
Forum Elder
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 1568
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Slavery is not free market capitalism. It is government backed fascism. Free market capitalism is all about freedom of choice and association. Clearly, slavery is the opposite of that. |
I don't see how that's clear at all. If a business were to choose to use slave labor instead of paying workers, that has nothing to do with government-backed fascism. |
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capitalist
Known Associate
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| Toxic wrote: |
I don't see how that's clear at all. If a business were to choose to use slave labor instead of paying workers, that has nothing to do with government-backed fascism. |
In the free market, if businesses "chose" to offer their workers zero money, no one would work there.
It is government backed fascism if the government protects employers who force slaves to work for zero dollars.
Slavery could not be more opposite of what the 'free market' means. |
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SearchForTruth
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Problem, the free market may work if in reality people were totally rational, and actually had real choices on the products they buy.Unfortunately corporate advertising agency's have found that people most of time buy products because of an unconscious emotional attachment and not logic.Meaning that our unconscious plays a much stronger role than once thought.An example would be the difference in say a shampoo commercial, in the late 80's and early 90's, these commerces for all intents and purposes were more rational based, shampoo A does xyz, compared to shampoo B that doesn't. Now what you find is fanciful commercials that may show a woman swimming in peddles of flowers in an apparent dreamland and the commercial having little to do with the actual product. This is not a coincidence, companies spend millions and ma bee even billions investing in advanced psychological and sociological sciences in order to figure out the best unconscious mental pathways to sell products.It is not the first time that corporations have been ahead of the scientific curve in order to manipulate people.You must considered that most people are not very informed, so how can the population as a whole make these rational decisions to begin with.I would also argue that in the context of a county society that is based on "selfish, individualistic, materialism" or "negative freedom"( look up GAME THEORY), corporate manipulation of the population is worrisome.The effectiveness of Free markets are predicated on an: intelligent,rational,well informed public, yet in reality it is not true. With this problem you have to really look at the fact that corporate lobbing has played a big role in keeping good information from the public through special interest control. Such as with the Global warming report that was cut from a scathing and in depth 21 pages into a three page statement that portrayed a real here nor there attitude to the public.In addition free markets do not solve the problems with intellectual property rights. Many times wealthy corporations stem growth and are very inefficient when it come to human advances in technology.The reason is because many times when new technologies comes out, instead of the free markets idealistic view that the small startup will some how compete in the market by using their more efficient new technology allowing them to overtake big business is simply naive. The fact is that any technology that comes out that directly opposes or makes obsolete that of big business are many times bought out by that same company and the technology stored away. Big corps have large embedded infrastructures to protect. The reason that big business is there is to make money anyway they can, not to follow mandates that better man kind, there obligation is to the shareholders, whether its buying technological patents that endanger their own profitability,making bombs, providing medicine or pumping out useless widgets, it doesn't matter. |
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SearchForTruth
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry, I know that my last statement wasn't exactly the topic,but I just worry about people who have the idea that free markets are some how a cure all practice for world economic and social development. They are not by a long shot. Wish it was that easy. |
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fellfire
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Off topic as well, but could you use paragraphs? Your postings are difficult to follow since your ideas and assertions all kinda run together in your posts. |
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fellfire
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| SearchForTruth wrote: | | The reason is because many times when new technologies comes out, instead of the free markets idealistic view that the small startup will some how compete in the market by using their more efficient new technology allowing them to overtake big business is simply naive. The fact is that any technology that comes out that directly opposes or makes obsolete that of big business are many times bought out by that same company and the technology stored away. Big corps have large embedded infrastructures to protect. The reason that big business is there is to make money anyway they can, not to follow mandates that better man kind, there obligation is to the shareholders, whether its buying technological patents that endanger their own profitability,making bombs, providing medicine or pumping out useless widgets, it doesn't matter |
This statement is actually incorrect according to studies. A Harvard study found that in a monopoly situation (i.e. a big corproration holding the majority of the market such that it can manipulate price and advertising easily) it is the large corporation that invovate quickly. There was no evidence in the study that corporations "store technology away".
What the study could not quantify was the relationship to innovation input vice innovation output. Correlating entry of new technology into a large corporate structure and output of that technology into a market or product was not possible due to the study mechanisms. The conclusions however seemed significant that it is not a fact that big corporations stifle innovation. |
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shankarsingam
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| cornopean wrote: | | shankarsingam wrote: | | White supremecists preach the killing or separating of the races, Wright does not. |
what white supremacists were you thinking of? I don't know of any but then I don't get out much. |
Christian Identity
Arayan Nation
NWO
KKK
Nazis
take your pick. |
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shankarsingam
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| fellfire wrote: | | Off topic as well, but could you use paragraphs? Your postings are difficult to follow since your ideas and assertions all kinda run together in your posts. |
x 2
You bring up interesting points, please use paragraphs. |
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SearchForTruth
Not a Newbie
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, I will try to structure my posts more clearly next time.
In response to the question about big business purchasing technology that endangers its own profitability.
Chevron and Texico-buy up advanced battery tecnology
Democracy now artical
http://www.democracynow.org/ar.....13/1421243
Also, watch: WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR doc, must see to understand exactly how these events took place. |
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SearchForTruth
Not a Newbie
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Harvard University focused the discussion on college costs with its bold announcement .... to celebrate a half-billion dollar grant from British Petroleum. ... |
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Toxic
Forum Elder
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 1568
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The conclusions however seemed significant that it is not a fact that big corporations stifle innovation. |
I don't think it's always true, but that it can be true. A good example of this is in my hobby of web design. Microsoft for the longest time has felt that it doesn't need to keep up with web standards or the like because of its large market share, and its browsers have fallen far behind everyone else's. They're now struggling to catch up on the standards and are steadily losing market share bit-by-bit. A lot of innovation has been made, but we've been unable to use it because the biggest of the browsers refused to implement it. |
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