Jeremiah Wright as a White House guest during Clinton days.

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Jeremiah Wright as a White House guest during Clinton days.

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fellfire
Forum Elder

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject:

shankarsingam wrote:

fellfire wrote:

We are not going to agree on this, shank. What you call "ethnocentric bigotry" I call "racism". I will just remember to translate your posts into Fellfire-speak and we can hopefully continue the debate from there.

shankarsingam wrote:

There is a difference between black empowerment and racism.

There is a difference. But is it acceptable to empower blacks by denigrating whites?

When enpowering, you must take away power from somewhere or something with power. How you morally do that is the question.

Patently false, shank. You incorrectly assume "empowerment" is a zero-sum game. Empowering someone or some group involves the human psyche, there is no known limit to the amount of empowerment that can exist in an area. Consider raising someones self-esteem: you don't have to take down someone elses self-esteem to bring another persons up. Speakers, motivators - real leaders - never resort to knocking someone down just to pick someone else up. The tactics decribed here (empowering one group by denigrating another) are the same tactics used by white supremicists. Therefore, Wright is equivalent to a white supremecist in his arguments: a racist.

shankarsingam wrote:

But to answer your question, there are better ways of empowerment than belittling or denigrating another group.

I'm glad we agree. Too bad Wright didn't use them in this case. He gave his audience a "vicitim complex" to empower them: "Oh pity poor us, Whites brought HIV to the Black community - it is not our fault." It's pathetic anyway you look at it.

shankarsingam
Forum Elder

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject:

capitalist wrote:

shankarsingam wrote:

I disagree. Free market capitalism does nothing to prevent racism in the work place and in some cases promotes it(not promotes racism, but white-ism) as they see it more as marketable.

I have heard this argument before, and I have also heard it proved wrong before. I will prove it wrong now:

If a customers at a restaurant are racist and want a white waiter, for example, the owner may be inclined to hire a less qualified white man over a better qualified black man, yes. BUT, is there no hidden cost to this racism? There is a cost, but this time it has been shifted from the employer to the customers. The customers are now receiving worse service from a lesser qualified white man because they didn't want service from a black man. That is a disincentive to be racist.

CAPITALISM DOES NOT 100% STOP RACISM, BUT IT DOES PROVIDE A DISINCENTIVE TO BE RACIST.

shankarsingam wrote:

Prove to me that you were denied college because of 'racial points' or affirmative action.

I applied to colleges that were forced to have affirmative action. My particular race is not helped by affirmative action. Other races are. Applicants of other races received bonus points for their race while I did not.

You do understand how affirmative action works, don't you?

Capitalist, you are nothing but hot air. You cant back any of your arguments with real life factual eveidence, such as i have offered.

1) Your first example of the restaraunt. You have made up some scenario in your head to 'prove' your point.
Please provide me with an actual real life reality based scenario or event to prove your point.
Secondly, i say again, i can show you repeatedly time and time again, of businesses choosing to discriminate based on race. I ask for the third time, would you like me to post 9 or 10 REAL LIFE REALITY examples of racial discrimination in the workplace?

2)Prove to me that the colleges you applied to had forced affirmative action. Perhaps an article that said University of Capitalist to enforce affirmative action. Or perhaps a University newspaper that states affirmative action on campus or something of the sort. How do you know it was because of affirmative action that you were denied? So far as i have read your posts, you re only assuming.

Real life examples(as i haved offered and can post) is what i need to beleive your point, otherwise capitalist you re just talking out of your ass(aka hot air)

shankarsingam
Forum Elder

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject:

You know what capitalist, I ve had it with your assumptions from fantasy capitalist land of racial equality.

This is how you post factual evidence to prove your point. Take a lesson.

Explain this

40 Million Paid to Class Members in December 2005 in Abercrombie & Fitch Discrimination Lawsuit Settlement
http://www.afjustice.com/

Coke Settles Racial Discrimination Suit
On June 14, Coca-Cola Co. reached a tentative settlement of a class action race discrimination lawsuit alleging disparities between black and white employees in pay, performance evaluations, promotions, and terminations. That same day, Johnnie Cochran, O.J. Simpson's defense attorney, and Willie Gary, a personal injury lawyer with a track record of wining large sums for his clients, filed a new $1.5 billion lawsuit against Coke in Georgia state court on behalf of four black women who allege that the company engaged in racially discriminatory hiring practices and subjected them to a racially hostile work environment. The settlement, whose details will not be finalized until some time in October, is intended to cover 2,000 black employees who worked at the company in the last ten years. The second lawsuit, however, threatens to undermine the settlement because employees could choose to opt out of the settlement in favor of the new litigation. 'The new lawsuit appears to raise exactly the same issues that were in the first lawsuit,' said Coca-Cola spokesman Robert Baskin, who noted that the company would investigate the new complaint and 'deal with it vigorously in court.' 6/00

Apple Hit With Racial Lawsuit
Apple Computer has been slapped with a $40 million racial discrimination lawsuit charging that the company unfairly sacked an African-American employee.

Described by the plaintiff's attorney as "one the largest racial discrimination cases in U.S. history," the suit alleges the former employee was denied promotions and standard perks, isolated from co-workers and then fired for a trivial offense.

Black Employees File Racial Discrimination Lawsuit Against Eli Lilly

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - A racial discrimination lawsuit alleges Eli Lilly & Co. paid black employees less than their white peers, passed them over for promotions and subjected them to harassment such as epithets.

The lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court also claims a Lilly human resources staffer told a complaining female employee that her managers on the manufacturing side considered her previous corporate supervisors to be too accepting of blacks and that they were no longer in a position to address her concerns.

"It's like the plantation, unfortunately, at the manufacturing site. It's blatant discrimination," Cassandra Welch said Friday, the day after the lawsuit was filed. Lilly fired her in mid-2004 for allegedly falsifying e-mails in an unrelated financial dispute with another employee of the Indianapolis-based drug company.

CRACKER BARREL TO PAY $2 MILLION FOR RACE AND SEXUAL HARASSMENT AT THREE ILLINOIS RESTAURANT

CHICAGO - Federal District Judge Charles R. Norgle, Sr. today entered a $2 million consent decree resolving a workplace discrimination lawsuit brought by the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) challenging sexual and racial harassment and retaliation at Cracker Barrel restaurants in Bloomington, Mattoon, and Matteson, Illinois, under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (EEOC v. Cracker Barrel Old Country Store, Inc. and CBOCS West, Inc., N.D. Illinois No.04-C-5273).

Texaco Settles Race Bias Suit for $176 Million
NEW YORK -- In the glare of scandal, Texaco Inc. on Friday signed what may be the largest settlement of a racial discrimination lawsuit, agreeing to pay an immediate $115 million in damages plus pay raises of at least 10% to about 1,400 black employees.
An unusual aspect of the settlement, valued by plaintiffs' lawyers at $176 million in all, calls for Texaco to form a seven-member "equality and tolerance task force" that will give the plaintiffs a say in hiring and promotion policy at the giant oil company.

"The era of the 'good ol' boy network' at Texaco is coming to an end," plaintiffs' lawyer Cyrus Mehri said, adding: "It's going to be a new Texaco."

You were saying about capitalism discourages discrimination? I ask you how.
I show you actual real life reality evidence proving your statement flat out wrong.

owned.

shankarsingam
Forum Elder

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject:

fellfire wrote:

shankarsingam wrote:

fellfire wrote:

shankarsingam wrote:

There is a difference between black empowerment and racism.

There is a difference. But is it acceptable to empower blacks by denigrating whites?

When enpowering, you must take away power from somewhere or something with power. How you morally do that is the question.

shankarsingam wrote:

But to answer your question, there are better ways of empowerment than belittling or denigrating another group.

Can't disagree with you more Fell. Empowerment Im talking about includes access to resources, ie, money, businesses, banks. Empowerment Im talking about includes, cultural mores, social standards, folkways.
Sure pshcye and self esteem are important, but you can read a Tony Robbins book to get that.

And the whole HIV thing, perhaps he said it to build animosity against HIV as a white enpowerment against blacks.

White supremecists preach the killing or separating of the races, Wright does not.

Anym
Forum Elder

Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 2562
Location: Jersey

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject:

shankarsingam wrote:

CRACKER BARREL TO PAY $2 MILLION FOR RACE AND SEXUAL HARASSMENT AT THREE ILLINOIS RESTAURANT

Not Cracker Barrel!

Patriot66
Not a Newbie

Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 115

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject:

Maybe this old man can sue the NBA for lack of whites on the teams and maybe I can get my shot!

Anym
Forum Elder

Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 2562
Location: Jersey

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject:

Patriot66 wrote:

Maybe this old man can sue the NBA for lack of whites on the teams and maybe I can get my shot!

there called owners and managers.

Anym
Forum Elder

Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 2562
Location: Jersey

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject:

capitalist wrote:

shankarsingam wrote:

You were discriminated against? What happened,you got skipped ahead in line at Starbucks?

That was racist right there -- you assume I am white and therefore you assume I go to Starbucks Wink

Seriously, though, of course I have been discriminated against. I number of years ago when I applied to colleges, black applicants got bonus racial points while I didn't. You don't think that qualifies as discrimination?

I hear conservatives bring this up often without any merit.

fellfire
Forum Elder

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject:

Okay, we disagree on "empowerment".

You lost me on this sentence I don't understand what you mean here.

shankarsingam wrote:

And the whole HIV thing, perhaps he said it to build animosity against HIV as a white enpowerment against blacks.

"against HIV as a white enpowerment against blacks"? I'm confused.

shankarsingam wrote:

White supremecists preach the killing or separating of the races, Wright does not.

What is he preaching when he says that whites are using biological weapons against the black community? It certainly isn't a simple FYI - he is seeking to incite something. What's the difference between saying "Whites have brought HIV to our community" and "Whites are out to kill our community"?

shankarsingam
Forum Elder

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject:

fellfire wrote:

Okay, we disagree on "empowerment".

You lost me on this sentence I don't understand what you mean here.

shankarsingam wrote:

And the whole HIV thing, perhaps he said it to build animosity against HIV as a white enpowerment against blacks.

"against HIV as a white enpowerment against blacks"? I'm confused.

shankarsingam wrote:

White supremecists preach the killing or separating of the races, Wright does not.

I apologize for shank-speak.

Yeah, i was trying to say that perhaps Wright meant that HIV is a white weapon against blacks and therefore we must guard ourselves against it(HIV).

And yes Wright meant whites are out to kill our community, but he is not suggesting the latter which is "lets kill whites in return." which would make him a racist.

shankarsingam
Forum Elder

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject:

Anym wrote:

capitalist wrote:

shankarsingam wrote:

You were discriminated against? What happened,you got skipped ahead in line at Starbucks?

That was racist right there -- you assume I am white and therefore you assume I go to Starbucks Wink

I hear conservatives bring this up often without any merit.

yup, capitalist is one of them.

Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject:

Shankarsingam you are a fucking retard.

You completely missed Capitalist's point. He never said there is no such thing as racism in the workplace.

He said that capitalism provides a disincentive to being racist because an employer will pay for the cost of hiring a worse worker and customers pay the cost of having worse service. Please read more carefully.

Toxic
Forum Elder

Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 1568

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject:

Anonymous wrote:

You completely missed Capitalist's point. He never said there is no such thing as racism in the workplace.

Why are you talking about yourself in the third person?

Quote:

He said that capitalism provides a disincentive to being racist because an employer will pay for the cost of hiring a worse worker and customers pay the cost of having worse service. Please read more carefully.

It doesn't provide a disincentive. Slavery is both cost-effective and can yield excellent results. Businesses have no reason not to do so outside of moral and social reasons.

Turk
Forum Elder

Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject:

Kind of funny how jeremiah right is getting so much attn from the media
people like jerry falwell and all of the TBN crooks never get the publicity that they deserve
thanks to the corporate elitist media

capitalist
Known Associate

Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 293

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject:

Toxic wrote:

It doesn't provide a disincentive. Slavery is both cost-effective and can yield excellent results. Businesses have no reason not to do so outside of moral and social reasons.

Slavery is not free market capitalism. It is government backed fascism. Free market capitalism is all about freedom of choice and association. Clearly, slavery is the opposite of that.

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