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capitalist
Known Associate
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 293
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 Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| joeyjock wrote: | YOU might not be religious Capitalist but the Politicians ARE
well actually they have to be to play this game
and for them to hide behind a religious SECT ... which is what they are
is shameful
Obama is no better or no worse than any of them in this regard
ALL RELIGIONS ...ALL OF THEM are discriminatory
and for you or anyone to say that this Reverend or that one is any worse is complete BS |
You're an idiot. |
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capitalist
Known Associate
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| shankarsingam wrote: |
You were discriminated against? What happened,you got skipped ahead in line at Starbucks? |
That was racist right there -- you assume I am white and therefore you assume I go to Starbucks 
Seriously, though, of course I have been discriminated against. I number of years ago when I applied to colleges, black applicants got bonus racial points while I didn't. You don't think that qualifies as discrimination?
| shankarsingam wrote: |
Ive heard this man speak of his life growing up in the south and its pretty fuggin sad.
Everything from his education to athleticism to jobs.
Its pretty unbeleivable how racist this country was just 50 years ago, 30 years ago |
Having a "sad" life does not excuse racism . Racism is racism. Whether it is black v. white or white v. black -- racism is a bad thing.
| shankarsingam wrote: |
Do you think there is no racism in the workplace today? You live in a dream land. Racism and discrimination in the workplace today is unbeleivably high.
Do you need sources? Cuz i will post so many it will make your head spin. |
When did I ever say there was no racism in the workplace? Please quote me saying that. That would make my "head spin"  |
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capitalist
Known Associate
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| fellfire wrote: |
African-Americans have struggled and fought hard for equality in this country. Is that struggled over? No. America still has to deal with racism. Does that mean that African-Americans have a right to be racist? No. Ignoring that racism occurs against all "races" in America is foolish.
Does that mean that we need to legislate against racist thoughts and feelings? of course not! the government is not the thought-police and, IMO, freedom of expression allows someone in this country to spew hate from every orafice of their body ... as equally as it allows me the right to protest them and shout them down. I don't have to quietly accept that they are bigoted and racist just because their ancestors or themselves have been discriminated against. |
Absolutely a great post. |
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shankarsingam
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| fellfire wrote: | | shankarsingam wrote: | | fellfire wrote: | | shankarsingam wrote: |
The reason i ask, is not to excuse Wright, but perhaps live in his shoes for a bit and see why and how he would make comments that you deem racist.
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I gotta ask, shank, because of the way you phrased this comment: do you consider Wright's statements to be racist? |
Racism to me means beleiving in a separation of races stemming from an ethnocentric value system. If Wright had stated at anytime that whites and blacks need to be separated then yes, i would consider him a racist.
But stating that whites brought HIV to the black community, is just plain conspriracist.
And the God damn america statement is an opinion.
So no, i dont beleive Wright is racist.
Just afro-centric. |
Alright, I think we have a difference of definition between us. I consider someone who readily generalizes a characteristic to an entire segment of population based solely on their skin color to be a racist.
When my dad says, off the cuff "Blacks are not as smart as whites", I call him a racist. When Imus nonchalantly called that girls basketball team "nappy headed whores", I consider that a sign of him being a racist. When Wright states that "whites brought HIV to the black community", I think that demostrates he is a racist. In these cases, you would consider these people as ethnocentric? |
So when Korean's make off the cuff comments about the japanese being sneaky liars(which they have and vice versa) are they being racist?
They are both the same skin color. They both made generalizations.
Your dad has an ignorant opinion of blacks(like my mom).
Imus was cracking a joke. Ive heard Howard Stern say worse.
And Wright again was stating an uninformed opinion on HIV.
Organizations like Christian Identity, KKK are racist.
If we are going to sit here and nitpick every stupid comment based on different skin color as racism, then i must say, we have come along way in abolishing racism from the 50's and 60's. |
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fellfire
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, then lets go back to your definition of racism:
| Quote: | | Racism to me means beleiving in a separation of races stemming from an ethnocentric value system. If Wright had stated at anytime that whites and blacks need to be separated then yes, i would consider him a racist. |
Alright
- white supremicists are racists (they want blacks seperated from whites),
- Imus is not a racist;
- the taxi driver that decides he is not going to pick up the well dressed black couple outside of a manhattan theater at night because he believes blacks are dangerous or live in dangerous neighborhoods is not a racist,
- the policeman who pulls over the black guy in a BMW because he is a black man in a BMW is not racist,
- Walgreens white management, who systemically fails to promote blacks to positions of management or to transfer them to profitable stores, is not racist.
Sorry, but I have a broader view of racism then you do.
As for the Koreans calling Japanese sneaky? it is no different then a white Marylander calling all West Virginians inbred - that is bigoted, not racist. Now racism is a type of bigotry, but all bigotry is not racism. A person who states all gays are a threat to public health is a bigot, not a racist; the person that states that whites brought HIV to the black community is a racist, which means they are a bigot.
bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance. |
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shankarsingam
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| capitalist wrote: | | shankarsingam wrote: |
You were discriminated against? What happened,you got skipped ahead in line at Starbucks? |
That was racist right there -- you assume I am white and therefore you assume I go to Starbucks
Seriously, though, of course I have been discriminated against. I number of years ago when I applied to colleges, black applicants got bonus racial points while I didn't. You don't think that qualifies as discrimination?
| shankarsingam wrote: |
Ive heard this man speak of his life growing up in the south and its pretty fuggin sad.
Everything from his education to athleticism to jobs.
Its pretty unbeleivable how racist this country was just 50 years ago, 30 years ago |
Having a "sad" life does not excuse racism . Racism is racism. Whether it is black v. white or white v. black -- racism is a bad thing.
| shankarsingam wrote: |
Do you think there is no racism in the workplace today? You live in a dream land. Racism and discrimination in the workplace today is unbeleivably high.
Do you need sources? Cuz i will post so many it will make your head spin. |
When did I ever say there was no racism in the workplace? Please quote me saying that. That would make my "head spin" |
You re an ass.
You re the new cornocopean of this forum.
I ll say you re the one thats racist for assuming only white people go to starbucks.
I only assumed you liked coffee.
How do you know that blacks got bonus 'racial points'?
Did you see results of their tests or something?
I think you are lying.
This was your statement about racism in the workplace.
"Free market capitalism provides a great incentive NOT to be racist. If an employer hire a less-qualified white person over a more-qualified black person, that employer will bear the cost of the difference in value of the two people."
I disagree and can show you proof otherwise that hiring whites over black bares no regard to value in labor intense production.(physical labor).
Furthermore i can show you why unsaid, unmentioned programs like affirmative action is needed in cases of the above and how you nor any other employee or student knows they are a product of affirmative action. |
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Patriot66
Not a Newbie
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 115
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="shankarsingam"]You re an ass.
quote]
That would be the pot calling the kettle black! You cant debate someone without calling them a curse word. |
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shankarsingam
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| fellfire wrote: | Alright, then lets go back to your definition of racism:
| Quote: | | Racism to me means beleiving in a separation of races stemming from an ethnocentric value system. If Wright had stated at anytime that whites and blacks need to be separated then yes, i would consider him a racist. |
Alright
- white supremicists are racists (they want blacks seperated from whites),
- Imus is not a racist;
- the taxi driver that decides he is not going to pick up the well dressed black couple outside of a manhattan theater at night because he believes blacks are dangerous or live in dangerous neighborhoods is not a racist,
- the policeman who pulls over the black guy in a BMW because he is a black man in a BMW is not racist,
- Walgreens white management, who systemically fails to promote blacks to positions of management or to transfer them to profitable stores, is not racist.
Sorry, but I have a broader view of racism then you do.
As for the Koreans calling Japanese sneaky? it is no different then a white Marylander calling all West Virginians inbred - that is bigoted, not racist. Now racism is a type of bigotry, but all bigotry is not racism. A person who states all gays are a threat to public health is a bigot, not a racist; the person that states that whites brought HIV to the black community is a racist, which means they are a bigot.
bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance. |
Whoa whoa whoa.
The taxi driver is an idiot for not picking up well to do blacks so yes he might be racist. but not sure.
Not sure about the cop, circumstances prevail.
Walgreens - sounds racist. They are separating blacks and whites.
Yes bigotry and bigotry stems from ethnocentrism.
If Wright stated that whites brought HIV to the black community and therefore we must KILL all whites or separate all whites, then yes that would be racism.
And if Marylanders had purple skin and W Virginians were green skinned and one called the other inbred, that still wouldnt be racist. It would be ethnocentric bigotry...maybe.
So Wright wouldn't be a racist as much as he would be a bigot. Except we have no proof that Wright hates and is intolerant of whites except perhaps in our perception of his speeches.
There is a difference between black empowerment and racism. |
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shankarsingam
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Patriot66"] | shankarsingam wrote: | You re an ass.
quote]
That would be the pot calling the kettle black! |
What did you just call me?
You just call me a black kettle?!
Now who is being racist.
You sound like Jeremiah Wright.
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fellfire
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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We are not going to agree on this, shank. What you call "ethnocentric bigotry" I call "racism". I will just remember to translate your posts into Fellfire-speak and we can hopefully continue the debate from there.
| shankarsingam wrote: | | There is a difference between black empowerment and racism. |
There is a difference. But is it acceptable to empower blacks by denigrating whites? |
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shankarsingam
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| fellfire wrote: | We are not going to agree on this, shank. What you call "ethnocentric bigotry" I call "racism". I will just remember to translate your posts into Fellfire-speak and we can hopefully continue the debate from there.
| shankarsingam wrote: | | There is a difference between black empowerment and racism. |
There is a difference. But is it acceptable to empower blacks by denigrating whites? |
When enpowering, you must take away power from somewhere or something with power. How you morally do that is the question.
But to answer your question, there are better ways of empowerment than belittling or denigrating another group. |
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capitalist
Known Associate
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| shankarsingam wrote: |
I ll say you re the one thats racist for assuming only white people go to starbucks.
I only assumed you liked coffee. |
Im glad to see that you have a sense of humor
| shankarsingam wrote: |
How do you know that blacks got bonus 'racial points'?
Did you see results of their tests or something?
I think you are lying. |
Don't you know what affirmative action is?
| shankarsingam wrote: |
This was your statement about racism in the workplace.
"Free market capitalism provides a great incentive NOT to be racist. If an employer hire a less-qualified white person over a more-qualified black person, that employer will bear the cost of the difference in value of the two people."
I disagree and can show you proof otherwise that hiring whites over black bares no regard to value in labor intense production.(physical labor).
Furthermore i can show you why unsaid, unmentioned programs like affirmative action is needed in cases of the above and how you nor any other employee or student knows they are a product of affirmative action. |
No you cannot prove my statement wrong. I never said that racism doesn't exist in free market capitalism. I said that capitalism provides an incentive not to be racist because there is a cost in hiring a worse white employee over a better black one, for example. I NEVER SAID RACISM DOESN'T EXIST. I suggest you read that statement again (slower this time).
Affirmative action is an awful idea. Applicants and employees should be chosen based solely on their abilities regardless of their race. That is pure capitalism. |
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shankarsingam
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1145
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| capitalist wrote: | | shankarsingam wrote: |
I ll say you re the one thats racist for assuming only white people go to starbucks.
I only assumed you liked coffee. |
Im glad to see that you have a sense of humor
| shankarsingam wrote: |
How do you know that blacks got bonus 'racial points'?
Did you see results of their tests or something?
I think you are lying. |
Don't you know what affirmative action is?
| shankarsingam wrote: |
This was your statement about racism in the workplace.
"Free market capitalism provides a great incentive NOT to be racist. If an employer hire a less-qualified white person over a more-qualified black person, that employer will bear the cost of the difference in value of the two people."
I disagree and can show you proof otherwise that hiring whites over black bares no regard to value in labor intense production.(physical labor).
Furthermore i can show you why unsaid, unmentioned programs like affirmative action is needed in cases of the above and how you nor any other employee or student knows they are a product of affirmative action. |
No you cannot prove my statement wrong. I never said that racism doesn't exist in free market capitalism. I said that capitalism provides an incentive not to be racist because there is a cost in hiring a worse white employee over a better black one, for example. I NEVER SAID RACISM DOESN'T EXIST. I suggest you read that statement again (slower this time).
Affirmative action is an awful idea. Applicants and employees should be chosen based solely on their abilities regardless of their race. That is pure capitalism. |
I disagree. Free market capitalism does nothing to prevent racism in the work place and in some cases promotes it(not promotes racism, but white-ism) as they see it more as marketable.
Would you like some cites and sources?
Ive got a truckload.
Also
Prove to me that you were denied college because of 'racial points' or affirmative action. |
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capitalist
Known Associate
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 293
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| shankarsingam wrote: |
I disagree. Free market capitalism does nothing to prevent racism in the work place and in some cases promotes it(not promotes racism, but white-ism) as they see it more as marketable. |
I have heard this argument before, and I have also heard it proved wrong before. I will prove it wrong now:
If a customers at a restaurant are racist and want a white waiter, for example, the owner may be inclined to hire a less qualified white man over a better qualified black man, yes. BUT, is there no hidden cost to this racism? There is a cost, but this time it has been shifted from the employer to the customers. The customers are now receiving worse service from a lesser qualified white man because they didn't want service from a black man. That is a disincentive to be racist.
CAPITALISM DOES NOT 100% STOP RACISM, BUT IT DOES PROVIDE A DISINCENTIVE TO BE RACIST.
| shankarsingam wrote: |
Prove to me that you were denied college because of 'racial points' or affirmative action. |
I applied to colleges that were forced to have affirmative action. My particular race is not helped by affirmative action. Other races are. Applicants of other races received bonus points for their race while I did not.
You do understand how affirmative action works, don't you? |
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joeyjock
Forum Elder
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 2113
Location: Fort Lauderdale
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| capitalist wrote: | | joeyjock wrote: | YOU might not be religious Capitalist but the Politicians ARE
well actually they have to be to play this game
and for them to hide behind a religious SECT ... which is what they are
is shameful
Obama is no better or no worse than any of them in this regard
ALL RELIGIONS ...ALL OF THEM are discriminatory
and for you or anyone to say that this Reverend or that one is any worse is complete BS |
You're an idiot. |
Figured you'd have such a succinctly juvenile response
maybe like when you begin to have a clue you can argue your point
until then I won't hold my breath |
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