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Lester
Forum Elder
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650
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 Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: | | Lester wrote: | | You at least have sensory data for your 'knowledge' of sitting down and arguing, what do you have for God? |
He has shown himself to me (not "physically" like that, but if you want the details, I wrote them in another post). To see God you must first open your mind and realize that there is a higher power and that humanity is not capable of comprehending the universe. We are but mice in a cage and there is a whole other unseen vast universe beyond that. |
My mind is open to the idea of a higher power, fuck I hope there is one, cause otherwise I've been going around cursing no-one for this messed up world, but to say that you have physical quantifiable proof in a christian or catholic God?? Thats an outright lie. |
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CryxicKiller
Known Associate
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: | | As I said, faith is incomprehensible to someone who has none. I know inherently that God exists, just like I know that I am typing right now and that I am sitting down right now and arguing when I should be doing calculus. |
In that sense, you are like Descartes, assuming god as an axiomatic truth that you don't need to reveal evidence for. Unfortunately, this god of yours, in order to create the world and everything we see around us, had to interact empirically. In order to reveal himself to you, he has to do so empirically. This god cannot violate the laws of physics that it supposedly conceived. If you have any such evidence towards the existence of god, I'd like to hear it.
That aside, thank you for conceding on the points regarding evolution being taught in school and science being superior to religion. |
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Mike
Not a Newbie
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Location: Roanoke, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| CryxicKiller wrote: | | Mike wrote: | | As I said, faith is incomprehensible to someone who has none. I know inherently that God exists, just like I know that I am typing right now and that I am sitting down right now and arguing when I should be doing calculus. |
In that sense, you are like Descartes, assuming god as an axiomatic truth that you don't need to reveal evidence for. Unfortunately, this god of yours, in order to create the world and everything we see around us, had to interact empirically. In order to reveal himself to you, he has to do so empirically. This god cannot violate the laws of physics that it supposedly conceived. If you have any such evidence towards the existence of god, I'd like to hear it.
That aside, thank you for conceding on the points regarding evolution being taught in school and science being superior to religion. |
Can did not violate the laws of physics. As I said, he showed himself to me through other means. I wrote them in anoher thread if you wish to read, but frankly, believe what you want, bu in the end, one of us is right, and one of us is wrong. |
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exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: | | bu in the end, one of us is right, and one of us is wrong. |
Not quite. You may both be wrong.
There's more than one god to choose from, you know. |
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CryxicKiller
Known Associate
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike, if you were able to understand god revealing itself to you, then it means god revealed itself within the boundaries of the laws of physics, or else you would have comprehended nothing. If this is the case, as I suspect it is, then I am still waiting for your evidence. Please direct me to the thread where you made these comments. Also, per exton, your god is not the only one! There are thousands of deities representing hundreds of religions all over the world as we speak. |
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Mike
Not a Newbie
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Location: Roanoke, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| CryxicKiller wrote: | | Mike, if you were able to understand god revealing itself to you, then it means god revealed itself within the boundaries of the laws of physics, or else you would have comprehended nothing. If this is the case, as I suspect it is, then I am still waiting for your evidence. Please direct me to the thread where you made these comments. Also, per exton, your god is not the only one! There are thousands of deities representing hundreds of religions all over the world as we speak. |
It;'s in the second page of the "Ten Questions" thread under Religion. Also, my God IS my ONLY God. |
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exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: | | Also, my God IS my ONLY God. |
Or so you think! That's why i say you could be wrong. |
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Mike
Not a Newbie
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Location: Roanoke, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | | Mike wrote: | | Also, my God IS my ONLY God. |
Or so you think! That's why i say you could be wrong. |
That's why I said MY God. I didn't say YOUR God. Go worship Satan or Gaia or Vishnu or Science for all I care. |
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exton
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: | | exton wrote: | | Mike wrote: | | Also, my God IS my ONLY God. |
Or so you think! That's why i say you could be wrong. |
That's why I said MY God. I didn't say YOUR God. Go worship Satan or Gaia or Vishnu or Science for all I care. |
...i think you're missing the point.
You believe in your god. You believe your god is the only god.
You may be wrong on both accounts. |
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CryxicKiller
Known Associate
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Mike, I found it, but it doesn't offer anything new. In fact, I even participated in the debate and you were thrashed like a Barbie doll, only coming back in a meek fashion to answer a quasi-personal question, which is not that difficult an endeavor. Honestly, your statements in that thread reveal nothing interesting or unique. Also, it is a nomological non sequitur to conclude that god exists because a church kept sending you letters. You have to be joking right now. You think that should impress us? Please offer me something better. |
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Mike
Not a Newbie
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Location: Roanoke, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| Frankly, I'm not sure what either of you are trying to accomplish. If you think that by insulting my religion that I will convert, you must think I have values as flimsy as a Democrat. If you're trying to get me to admit that there is no God, you're still out of luck. So, either you're just wasting my time bashing my religion and my faith, or you have some sort of motive or goal in this. Care to fill me in so we can end this argument that's gone on far too long? |
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CryxicKiller
Known Associate
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, you've already conceded on the main points that we started out debating (relating to evolution in schools). This second part was me trying to see if you had any good reasons for believing in god. I'm still waiting. |
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Mike
Not a Newbie
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 143
Location: Roanoke, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| CryxicKiller wrote: | | Actually, you've already conceded on the main points that we started out debating (relating to evolution in schools). This second part was me trying to see if you had any good reasons for believing in god. I'm still waiting. |
Strange, I don't remember changing my stance on the first issue from "Neither evolution nor creationism should be forced upon any grade school students, it should be left as an elective, or saved until college." Now, about my reasons for believing in God, I have my reasons, and to me, they are good. I've sensed God, felt God, heard God, and know God. I connected with God without using my five senses, or using natural laws of physics or anything like that. I don't care that you think it's a bad reason, I don't care about why you hold stock in science and have faith in man, and I certainly don't need the approval of someone who knows nothing of faith or spirituality. |
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
Known Associate
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 300
Location: Richmond, IN
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| So.. evidence gathered by recording equipment developed by leading geologists isn't at all valid, but something mentioned offhand in the same chapters of the same book that has humans being created TWICE is valid, because a bunch of people read that book? Faith is admirable, but very personal, and shouldn't be used to defy logic. See my post to His_Princess in "man tests faith against river, river wins" about this. |
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PeaceLoveandRockNRoll
Known Associate
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 300
Location: Richmond, IN
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Mike wrote: | | CryxicKiller wrote: | | That was a tad harsh Mike. I, for example, cared about evolution when I was in high school, and still do today. Hehe....... |
That's the problem with Democrats. They have an ideal utopian view and don't seem to understand tha not everyone shares the same view. You may not like guns, but some love to hunt. Don't make rules and regulations to enforce people and make sure they follow your personal dream. |
You mean, like, by teaching abstinence-only sex ed? Or putting the ten commandments in a US courthouse? Or forcing students to recite the Lord's Prayer in public schools? Or calling anyone opposed to aggrassive, preemptive war a terrorist sympathizer who hates America? Hmm, can't seem to remember which party does all that stuff. Is it those damned closeminded Democrats who can't deal with someone else having a different view than they do? Not to say liberals are innocent of this, it certainly happens on both sides, but I think any effort to establish Christianity as the state religion is a much better example of "not understanding that not everyone shares the same view" than, say, teaching students the findings of BIOLOGISTS inf a class on BIOLOGY. If you think evolution should wait, so should the entire field of bio. |
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