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jusdeadphunky
Forum Elder

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 2222

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: holy shit

U.S. set to begin a vast expansion of DNA sampling <a href="http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/05/america/web.0205dna.php">International Herald Tribune | February 5, 2007</a> Julia Preston The Justice Department is completing rules to allow the collection of DNA from most people arrested or detained by federal authorities, a vast expansion of DNA gathering that will include hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, by far the largest group affected.
The new forensic DNA sampling was authorized by Congress in a little-noticed amendment to a January 2006 renewal of the Violence Against Women Act, which provides protections and assistance for victims of sexual crimes. The amendment permits DNA collecting from anyone under criminal arrest by federal authorities, and also from illegal immigrants detained by federal agents.
Over the last year, the Justice Department has been conducting an internal review and consulting with other agencies to prepare regulations to carry out the law.

The goal, justice officials said, is to make the practice of DNA sampling as routine as fingerprinting for anyone detained by federal agents, including illegal immigrants. Until now, federal authorities have taken DNA samples only from convicted felons.
The law has strong support from crime victims' organizations and some women's groups, who say it will help law enforcement identify sexual predators and also detect dangerous criminals among illegal immigrants.
"Obviously, the bigger the DNA database, the better," said Lynn Parrish, the spokeswoman for the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network, based in Washington. "If this had been implemented years ago, it could have prevented many crimes. Rapists are generalists. They don't just rape, they also murder."
Peter Neufeld, a lawyer who is a co-director of the Innocence Project, which has exonerated dozens of prison inmates using DNA evidence, said the government was overreaching by seeking to apply DNA sampling as universally as fingerprinting.
"Whereas fingerprints merely identify the person who left them," Neufeld said, "DNA profiles have the potential to reveal our physical diseases and mental disorders. It becomes intrusive when the government begins to mine our most intimate matters."
Immigration lawyers said they did not learn of the measure when it passed last year and were dismayed by its sweeping scope.

"This has taken us by storm," said Deborah Notkin, a lawyer who was president of the American Immigration Lawyers Association last year. "It's so broad, it's scary. It is a terrible thing to do because people are sometimes detained erroneously in the immigration system."
Immigration lawyers noted that most immigration violations, including those committed when people enter the country illegally, are civil, not criminal, offenses. They warned that the new law would make it difficult for immigrants to remove their DNA profiles from the federal database, even if they were never found to have committed any serious violation or crime.
Under the new law, DNA samples would be taken from any illegal immigrants who are detained and would normally be fingerprinted, justice officials said. Last year federal customs, Border Patrol and immigration agents detained more than 1.2 million immigrants, the majority of them at the border with Mexico. About 238,000 of those immigrants were detained in immigration enforcement investigations. A great majority of all immigration detainees were fingerprinted, immigration officials said. About 102,000 people were arrested on federal charges not related to immigration in 2005.
While the proposed rules have not been finished, justice officials said they were certain to bring a huge new workload for the FBI laboratory that logs, analyzes and stores federal DNA samples. Federal Bureau of Investigation officials said they anticipated an increase ranging from 250,000 to as many as 1 million samples a year.
The laboratory currently receives about 96,000 samples a year, said Robert Fram, chief of the agency's Scientific Analysis Section.
DNA would not be taken from legal immigrants who are stopped briefly by the authorities, justice officials said, or from legal residents who are detained on noncriminal immigration violations.

"What this does is move the DNA collection to the arrest stage," said Erik Ablin, a Justice Department spokesman. "The general approach," he said, "is to bring the collection of DNA samples into alignment with current federal fingerprint collection practices." He said the department was "moving forward aggressively" to issue proposed regulations.
The 2006 amendment was sponsored by two border state Republicans, Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona and Senator John Cornyn of Texas. In an interview, Kyl said the measure was broadly drawn to encompass illegal immigrants as well as Americans arrested for federal crimes. He said that 13 percent of illegal immigrants detained in Arizona last year had criminal records.
"Some of these are very bad people," Kyl said. "The number of sexual assaults committed by illegal immigrants is astonishing. Right now there is a fingerprint system in use, but it is not as thorough as it could be."
Parrish, of the rape victims' organization, pointed to the case of Angel Resendiz, a Mexican immigrant who was known as the Railroad Killer. Starting in 1997, Resendiz committed at least 15 murders and numerous rapes in the United States. Over the years of his rampage, Resendiz was deported 17 times. He was executed in Texas in June.
"That was 17 missed opportunities to collect his DNA," Parrish said. "If he had been identified as the perpetrator of the first rapes, it would have prevented later ones."
Immigration lawyers said the DNA sampling could tar illegal immigrants with a criminal stigma, even though most of them have never committed any criminal offense.

"To equate somebody with a possible immigration violation in the same category as a suspected sex offender is an outrage," said David Leopold, an immigration lawyer who practices in Cleveland.
Forensic DNA is culled either from a tiny blood sample taken from a fingertip (the FBI's preferred method) or from a swab of the inside of the mouth. Federal samples are logged into the FBI's laboratory, analyzed and transformed into profiles that can be read by computer. The profiles are loaded into a database called the National DNA Index System.
The FBI also loads DNA profiles from local and state police into the federal database and runs searches. Only seven states now collect DNA from suspects when they are arrested; of those, only two states are authorized by their laws to send those samples to the federal database.
Neufeld, of the Innocence Project, said his group supported broad DNA collection from convicted criminals. But, he said, "There is no demonstrable nexus between being detained for an immigration matter and the likelihood you are going to commit some serious violent crime."
The DNA amendment has divided women's groups that are usually unified supporters of the Violence Against Women Act, which was adopted in 1994.
"We were stunned by the extraordinary, broad sweep of this amendment," said Lisalyn Jacobs, vice president for government relations at Legal Momentum, a law group founded by the National Organization for Women. Jacobs recalled that the amendment had been adopted by a voice vote with little debate. She said many lawmakers eager to renew the act, which enjoys solid bipartisan support, appeared unaware of the scope of the DNA amendment.

"The pervasive problems of profiling in the United States will only be exacerbated by such a system," Jacobs said, because Latino and other immigrants will be greatly over-represented in the database. She noted that the law required a court order to remove a profile from the system.
Many groups warned that the measure would compound already severe backlogs in the FBI's DNA processing. Fram of the FBI said there had been an enormous increase in the samples coming to the databank since it started to operate in 1998, but no new resources for the bureau's laboratory. Currently about 150,000 DNA samples from convicted criminals are waiting to be processed and loaded into the national database, Fram said.
He said the laboratory had added robot technology to speed the processing. But in the "worst case scenario," where the laboratory receives one million new samples a year, Fram said, "there is going to be a bottleneck."

queerxnation
Newbie

Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Houston, TX

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject:

Cuz you know immigrants are the only people that ever rape anyone, yup.

Their mere status as an undocumented immigrant just DRIVES them to rape and murder.

Yup.

Americans never rape or murder. Nope. Never.

Why are people so dumb?

exton
Forum Elder

Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:32 am Post subject:

Everyone knows that it's not immigrants who rape and murder. What nonsense!

It's atheists =D

Nesta13Maldini
Known Associate

Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 173
Location: My Computer Chair

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject:

exton wrote:

Everyone knows that it's not immigrants who rape and murder. What nonsense!

It's atheists =D

............. Razz

queerxnation
Newbie

Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 44
Location: Houston, TX

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject:

lmao atheists.

Cuz jails have 0 religious people. Yup!

Patriot
Newbie

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 33

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject:

No, I dont see that as saying all immigrants are rapists or so on. I dont believe that. But I do believe that there are NUMEROUS illegal immigrants who commit unlawfull and cruel acts in this country. Why do I believe this? Because they have already commited an unlawful act, no action was taken against them, so why listen to any of our other laws. Our problem is that we dont enforce our own laws to the extent that they should be enforced. I dont hate immigrants. I dont hate illegal immigrants. I understand why they are coming, they want a better life for themselves and their families. But we need to put our nations security and our citizens safety above those who enter this country illegally.

exton
Forum Elder

Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject:

Patriot wrote:

I do believe that there are NUMEROUS illegal immigrants who commit unlawfull and cruel acts in this country. Why do I believe this? Because they have already commited an unlawful act, no action was taken against them, so why listen to any of our other laws.

Really huh? So, if person breaks one law, that means they're equally willing to break any other law?

So tell me - do you ALWAYS drive the speed limit? And, if not, how many people have you killed in your criminal career? Raped? Stolen from? Etc.

Patriot
Newbie

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 33

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:16 am Post subject:

Quote:

First off, your taking me out of context. Im not saying that if somebody breaks a law they are going to break every other law. What I am saying is that we are proving to them that there are no concequences for them breaking the law. What happens when they do something illegal? They go back home to Mexico to try again.

Lester
Forum Elder

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 4650

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:46 am Post subject:

Patriot wrote:

Quote:

If they want to be in america so much then thats a pretty harsh consequence no?

exton
Forum Elder

Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 4218

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:14 am Post subject:

Patriot wrote:

What I am saying is that we are proving to them that there are no concequences for them breaking the law.

Not really.

Like i said - do you always drive the speed limit?

I doubt you do.
And yet, how often do you get caught? Probably never. Most people aren't.

So...you're doing something illegal...probably on a regular basis...and not getting caught...

Does that lead you to believe that laws *in general* are not enforced?

Of course not. That's would be nonsense.
And you know it's nonsense, because you're not an idiot.

Similarly, illegal immigrants are not idiots. They, like the vast majority of adult humans throughout the entire world, are aware of certain distinctions about the law. Like laws that are enforced. Laws that aren't enforced. Laws that people might enforce, but which are actually impossible to enforce in real life. Laws that local police enforce, that state police do not. Laws that state police enforce, that local police do not.

And they're well-aware that what they're doing is illegal, and they try quite hard to avoid getting caught. Many aren't aware of the minutae of the distinctions mentioned above; a lot of them don't know that some government agencies will turn them in, and others will not.

Quote:

What happens when they do something illegal? They go back home to Mexico to try again.

What happens when you break the speed limit? They give you a ticket, and you just go and do it again.

Crossing a border (and breaking the speed limit) is completely different from shooting people and raping and pillaging. The only people who do not understand the difference are sociopaths and the severely retarded, and sociopaths cause problems no matter what.

Or...are you under the impression that they are not under the jurisdiction of our courts? Whenever they commit serious crimes, and are caught, they are treated like everyone else - they're arrested and given a trial.

Patriot
Newbie

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 33

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:53 am Post subject:

You and I just aren't going to agree on anything now are we, Exton? Haha.

True, I misspoke in saying that there are no consequences for illegal alien committing crimes in our country. But I believe that we aren't focusing on enforcing them to the extent that they should be. For instance we need to start by enforcing the agencies tasked with enforcing those laws. I understand that it is a difficult job, and I understand sometimes you may not have the time nor manpower to enforce some laws. This merely enforces the need to strengthen our law enforcement on all levels; local, state, and federal.

jusdeadphunky
Forum Elder

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 2222

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject:

Patriot wrote:

this is a stupid ass statement. you are missing the point which is if you are detained by a federal agent they now are going to collect a DNA sample (the same way they do with your fingerprints) and this is going to become common practice with all law enforcement, just like fingerprinting. you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. period, end of story. they have been taking DNA samples from people incarcerated for years now, but the difference is that those people have been convicted. because you are arrested and detained, does not mean that you broke the law.

Patriot
Newbie

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 33

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject:

Forgive me for believing that they should be taking DNA samples from illegal immigrants. They need to fund all levels of law enforcement better to prevent a "bottleneck". You caught me, I am member of the VRWC.

jusdeadphunky
Forum Elder

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 2222

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:39 am Post subject:

Patriot wrote:

so in essence, you are saying you believe they should take DNA samples from everyone, because anyone can commit a crime so everyone's DNA should be on file?

Patriot
Newbie

Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 33

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:29 am Post subject:

Sure. I have nothing to hide, so go ahead.

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