chevydriver1123
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Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 974
Location: New York
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 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: Conservative Paradox |
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| I have read that one of the core principals of Conservatism is; small government aka staying the hell out your personal affairs. Now if that is one of the main pillars then why do those who say they are Conservative play the Family Values card in addition to kissing up to the Religious Right who are about big government and getting involved in your personal affairs which in turn are more or less Liberal beliefs. |
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Anym
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 2562
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| It's called lip service. |
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cornopean
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3534
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| chevydriver1123 wrote: | | I have read that one of the core principals of Conservatism is; small government aka staying the hell out your personal affairs. Now if that is one of the main pillars then why do those who say they are Conservative play the Family Values card in addition to kissing up to the Religious Right who are about big government and getting involved in your personal affairs which in turn are more or less Liberal beliefs. |
I struggled with this too. My only answer is that there is no party that has no moral values. We have to choose whose morality we are going to follow. that being said, I can tell you that voting for christian moral values is going to get you a govt that will interfere in two aspects of your personal living. You will not be allowed to marry someone of the same sex and you will not be allowed to kill a fetus.
Now if you want me to mention all the interferences into family life that liberal morality would bring.....there isn't enough room on this server. |
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shankarsingam
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Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 1139
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | chevydriver1123 wrote: | | I have read that one of the core principals of Conservatism is; small government aka staying the hell out your personal affairs. Now if that is one of the main pillars then why do those who say they are Conservative play the Family Values card in addition to kissing up to the Religious Right who are about big government and getting involved in your personal affairs which in turn are more or less Liberal beliefs. |
I struggled with this too. My only answer is that there is no party that has no moral values. We have to choose whose morality we are going to follow. that being said, I can tell you that voting for christian moral values is going to get you a govt that will interfere in two aspects of your personal living. You will not be allowed to marry someone of the same sex and you will not be allowed to kill a fetus.
Now if you want me to mention all the interferences into family life that liberal morality would bring.....there isn't enough room on this server. |
Name one instance of a true liberal interfereing with personal lifestyle. |
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cornopean
Forum Elder
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3534
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| shankarsingam wrote: |
Name one instance of a true liberal interfereing with personal lifestyle. |
Education - can't send your student to the school of your choice. If you choose to homeschool, here are a blizzard of regulations you must adhere to.
No Child Left Behind - teachers have to meet all sorts of regulations in order to get certified and teach. (this affects the personal life of teachers)
taxation - too many to list. basically libs want higher taxes which has a huge impact on personal life.
health care - with single payer health care, we are only one step away from the govt telling us what medical procedures we need and which we don't need. |
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Anym
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 2562
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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O don't give us the Horse Shit NCLB has been criticized by the left and passed by a GOP congress and GOP president.
And as to NCLB why shouldn't we have regulations on teachers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N.....er_quality
Really they seem that daunting to me(and I want to teach)
As to sending to a school of your choice.
There's a reason why people MOVE to neighborhoods with good school.
And if they home school why don't a see a sh!t storm of evangelicals(60%Home School) protesting
regulations.
Health Care Insurance Companies TELL PEOPLE NOW WHAT HOSPITALS TO GO TO AND WHAT DOCTORS THEY CAN SEE!
And as too liberals interfering with peoples personal life well Tipper Gore and Hillary Clinton and that's all I have to say. |
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cornopean
Forum Elder
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3534
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Anym wrote: | | O don't give us the Horse Shit NCLB has been criticized by the left and passed by a GOP congress and GOP president. |
admittedly. but it is a liberal piece of legislation. far more cons criticize the bill than libs. dont forget that Ted Kennedy was a sponsor. here is how the votes went down.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll145.xml
notice that more GOPs voted "no" than dems.
here is the senate vote. same thing.
http://www.senate.gov/legislat.....vote=00192 |
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cornopean
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3534
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Anym wrote: | O don't give us the Horse Shit NCLB has been criticized by the left and passed by a GOP congress and GOP president.
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where has the left criticized NCLB? I see libs crying that the president hasn't funded it....but they all seem to like the bill itself. |
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Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | shankarsingam wrote: |
Name one instance of a true liberal interfereing with personal lifestyle. |
Education - can't send your student to the school of your choice. If you choose to homeschool, here are a blizzard of regulations you must adhere to.
No Child Left Behind - teachers have to meet all sorts of regulations in order to get certified and teach. (this affects the personal life of teachers)
taxation - too many to list. basically libs want higher taxes which has a huge impact on personal life.
health care - with single payer health care, we are only one step away from the govt telling us what medical procedures we need and which we don't need. |
Why is this any different than neocon agenda? |
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cornopean
Forum Elder
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3534
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| Turk wrote: |
Why is this any different than neocon agenda? |
uhhh....cuz neo cons dont support those policies.  |
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Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | Turk wrote: |
Why is this any different than neocon agenda? |
uhhh....cuz neo cons dont support those policies. |
They support no child left behind, thats more government involvement in education, and they have fucked that all up
The neocons have given government more power in education and that has been a huge failure
Taxes hmm inflation thats a tax and a more serious tax than normal taxes. |
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cornopean
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3534
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| Turk wrote: | | cornopean wrote: | | Turk wrote: |
Why is this any different than neocon agenda? |
uhhh....cuz neo cons dont support those policies. |
They support no child left behind, thats more government involvement in education, and they have fucked that all up
The neocons have given government more power in education and that has been a huge failure
Taxes hmm inflation thats a tax and a more serious tax than normal taxes. |
cons do not support NCLB. |
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Turk
Forum Elder
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | cornopean wrote: | | Turk wrote: |
Why is this any different than neocon agenda? |
uhhh....cuz neo cons dont support those policies. |
They support no child left behind, thats more government involvement in education, and they have fucked that all up
The neocons have given government more power in education and that has been a huge failure
Taxes hmm inflation thats a tax and a more serious tax than normal taxes. |
cons do not support NCLB. |
All of the neocons supported it |
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cornopean
Forum Elder
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3534
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| Turk wrote: | | cornopean wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | cornopean wrote: | | Turk wrote: |
Why is this any different than neocon agenda? |
uhhh....cuz neo cons dont support those policies. |
They support no child left behind, thats more government involvement in education, and they have fucked that all up
The neocons have given government more power in education and that has been a huge failure
Taxes hmm inflation thats a tax and a more serious tax than normal taxes. |
cons do not support NCLB. |
All of the neocons supported it |
name em.
do you think cons or libs will be more intrusive into people's personal lives? |
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chevydriver1123
Veteran
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 974
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | cornopean wrote: | | Turk wrote: | | cornopean wrote: | | Turk wrote: |
Why is this any different than neocon agenda? |
uhhh....cuz neo cons dont support those policies. |
They support no child left behind, thats more government involvement in education, and they have fucked that all up
The neocons have given government more power in education and that has been a huge failure
Taxes hmm inflation thats a tax and a more serious tax than normal taxes. |
cons do not support NCLB. |
All of the neocons supported it |
name em.
do you think cons or libs will be more intrusive into people's personal lives? |
Cons if they continue to court the Religious Right. |
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