fellfire
Forum Elder
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: Washington DC
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 Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | shankarsingam wrote: |
Name one instance of a true liberal interfereing with personal lifestyle. |
Education - can't send your student to the school of your choice. If you choose to homeschool, here are a blizzard of regulations you must adhere to. |
False. Most of my parents grandchildren in my family (80%) have been home schooled in at least three states. The regulations were straight-forward and easily obtained. Home schooling such a normal process now, it is a simple process in most of the country; maybe you're just living in a backassward part of america?
Besides, that has nothing to do with your accusation because there is no government regulation stopping YOU from sending your kids to a private school, and public schools are free.
| cornopean wrote: | | No Child Left Behind - teachers have to meet all sorts of regulations in order to get certified and teach. (this affects the personal life of teachers) |
Bullshit. That's like saying that a HVAC contractor being required to to be certified to install heaters, boilers and hazardous chemicals is a liberal interference with their life. I suppose having to go to school in order to have any trade is a liberal interference. Having to pass an driver's exam in order to get a driver's license? Liberal interference. Corny this has got to be one of your stupidest responses.
| cornopean wrote: | | taxation - too many to list. basically libs want higher taxes which has a huge impact on personal life. |
Bullshit. "give unto Caeser what is Caeser's" Religion has never had a problem with taxes - especially the Protestants.
| cornopean wrote: | | health care - with single payer health care, we are only one step away from the govt telling us what medical procedures we need and which we don't need. |
If whales could fly, we are only one step away from drowning in your bullshit answers. Keep it real.
Judeo-Christian religions are all about control of the congregation by the oligarchy of the church hierarchy. That is what they were founded on, that is what is at the heart of all of their teaching; ergo, their "moral values" are about keeping their control. Given the power of government-backing it would (and has) become abusive control. |
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cornopean
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3576
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| fellfire wrote: | False. Most of my parents grandchildren in my family (80%) have been home schooled in at least three states. The regulations were straight-forward and easily obtained. Home schooling such a normal process now, it is a simple process in most of the country; maybe you're just living in a backassward part of america?
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your anecdotes are interesting but not really that cogent. the truth is, if cons were in control of the govt, there would be LESS govt control over your personal life than if libs were in control.
that is b/c with a voucher, you would be more free than without one. I think that is simple enough.
| Quote: | | Bullshit. That's like saying that a HVAC contractor being required to to be certified to install heaters, boilers and hazardous chemicals is a liberal interference with their life. I suppose having to go to school in order to have any trade is a liberal interference. Having to pass an driver's exam in order to get a driver's license? Liberal interference. Corny this has got to be one of your stupidest responses. |
I am not now arguing that any of these intrusions are good or bad. I am simply trying to establish that with libs in govt, we would have much more intrusion into our personal life than if cons were in charge. now most cons want to ELIMINATE the dept of education. that would mean less govt regulation over teachers. furthermore, the voucher program that cons support would mean a tremendous growth in the number of private schools. these private schools would not be subject to the govt regulations that public schools are. hence, they could hire anyone they want to be a teacher regardless of whether they are certified or not. (btw...teacher certification does nothing for student achievement)
| Quote: | | cornopean wrote: | | taxation - too many to list. basically libs want higher taxes which has a huge impact on personal life. |
Bullshit. "give unto Caeser what is Caeser's" Religion has never had a problem with taxes - especially the Protestants.
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I am here talking about cons. and as much as you might hate to admit it, libs are all for getting into your wallet which definitely qualifies as an intrusion into personal life.
furthermore, it is cons who are suggesting a flatter or even the FairTax which would make it even more difficult for the govt to manipulate people's choices via the tax code.
| Quote: | | cornopean wrote: | | health care - with single payer health care, we are only one step away from the govt telling us what medical procedures we need and which we don't need. |
If whales could fly, we are only one step away from drowning in your bullshit answers. Keep it real.
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does it not make sense to you that if the govt is paying, they are going to want to have a say in what procedures you "need"? that seems fairly obvious to me.
| Quote: | Judeo-Christian religions are all about control of the congregation by the oligarchy of the church hierarchy. That is what they were founded on, that is what is at the heart of all of their teaching; ergo, their "moral values" are about keeping their control.
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pardon me for not seeing a problem here. shouldn't church leaders have control over their own churches? after all...membership is still optional in every church that I know.
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Given the power of government-backing it would (and has) become abusive control. |
yes I suppose if Christian fundies were in control, they would hang adulterers and stone gays. ha!! If this is the case, they sure haven't let on that this is what they secretly hope for. but thanks for letting us in on this great secret. this is quite a conspiracy if true. earth shaking. the great Christian secret....we are coming for you. haha!! can't wait for the lynchings to begin. haha!! this is all so silly. people really believe this. do any of the Christians you know act like this? |
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cornopean
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3576
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| my wife reminded me of another liberal intrusion into our personal lives. Gun control. all gun control legislation is suggested and supported by libs. cons are generally opposed. |
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Turk
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Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 3340
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | my wife reminded me of another liberal intrusion into our personal lives. Gun control. all gun control legislation is suggested and supported by libs. cons are generally opposed. |
republicans condone gun control as well |
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TrespassersW
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 990
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| chevydriver1123 wrote: | | I have read that one of the core principals of Conservatism is; small government aka staying the hell out your personal affairs. Now if that is one of the main pillars then why do those who say they are Conservative play the Family Values card in addition to kissing up to the Religious Right who are about big government and getting involved in your personal affairs which in turn are more or less Liberal beliefs. |
Because humans are imperfect, and most have a low tolerance for others behaving differently than what they personally think is right.
That's my primary complaint with both major parties. |
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cornopean
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| TrespassersW wrote: | | chevydriver1123 wrote: | | I have read that one of the core principals of Conservatism is; small government aka staying the hell out your personal affairs. Now if that is one of the main pillars then why do those who say they are Conservative play the Family Values card in addition to kissing up to the Religious Right who are about big government and getting involved in your personal affairs which in turn are more or less Liberal beliefs. |
Because humans are imperfect, and most have a low tolerance for others behaving differently than what they personally think is right.
That's my primary complaint with both major parties. |
first, do you acknowledge that any political party is going to intrude into one's personal affairs according to their own values?
second, do you think libs in this country will do more intruding than cons? |
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Anym
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 2562
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| cornopean wrote: | | Anym wrote: | O don't give us the Horse Shit NCLB has been criticized by the left and passed by a GOP congress and GOP president.
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where has the left criticized NCLB? I see libs crying that the president hasn't funded it....but they all seem to like the bill itself. |
From dear god the heartland.org
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=14493
Criticism and Regret
Many of the Democrats who once supported NCLB, together with their allies in the teacher unions--who long have argued for greater federal involvement in education--were condemning NCLB as unfair and inadequately funded. In campaigning for the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary, Democratic hopeful Howard Dean was particularly biting in his criticism of NCLB. As governor of Vermont, he had even threatened to withdraw the state from NCLB and forgo the federal funds it provided.
Dean echoed the National Education Association (NEA) in charging NCLB uses a “one-size-fits-all” formula that imposes “rigid and expensive mandates” on local schools. |
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Anym
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 2562
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | my wife reminded me of another liberal intrusion into our personal lives. Gun control. all gun control legislation is suggested and supported by libs. cons are generally opposed. |
Please tell me how background checks on people who wish to own a gun is destroying america.  |
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joeyjock
Forum Elder
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 2113
Location: Fort Lauderdale
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/e.....usat_x.htm
States fight No Child Left Behind, calling it intrusive
By Greg Toppo, USA TODAY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....y/nochild/
NEA, States Challenge 'No Child' Program
Bush's Premier Education Measure Taken to Court
By Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
http://www.npr.org/templates/s.....Id=1842214
'No Child Left Behind' Criticism Widespread
by Claudio Sanchez
It's an unfunded mandate that does NOT take into account anything about the nature of the students....their ethnic background ...whether they even speak English at home...nothing about economic status ... you know things like maybe if Mom's a crackhead or not
it's more steal from the poor and give to the rich BS from this government they've been givin' us from the beginning
and plus dear republican friends
this is Federalized Education...what the hell are you backing this for
if you're so much for States rights and open market sharing?
well I must say they at least have been consistent
Thursday, April 21, 2005; Page A21 |
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TrespassersW
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 990
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | first, do you acknowledge that any political party is going to intrude into one's personal affairs according to their own values? |
No, I do not.
| cornopean wrote: | | second, do you think libs in this country will do more intruding than cons? |
No, I do not.
Conservatives will tend to meddle in people's personal lives to keep them from having too much fun. Liberals will tend to meddle in people's personal lives to keep them from having too much money.  |
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cornopean
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| TrespassersW wrote: | | Conservatives will tend to meddle in people's personal lives to keep them from having too much fun. |
again...I believe this is a stereotype that won't stand up to scrutiny. so give me specific examples where cons want to meddle in people's personal lives? |
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Toxic
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Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 1568
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | TrespassersW wrote: | | Conservatives will tend to meddle in people's personal lives to keep them from having too much fun. |
again...I believe this is a stereotype that won't stand up to scrutiny. so give me specific examples where cons want to meddle in people's personal lives? |
Do you really think we're all going to fall for you playing dumb? |
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TrespassersW
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 990
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | TrespassersW wrote: | | Conservatives will tend to meddle in people's personal lives to keep them from having too much fun. |
again...I believe this is a stereotype that won't stand up to scrutiny. so give me specific examples where cons want to meddle in people's personal lives? |
Gladly. Most conservatives I know do not think adults should have the right to alter their perceptions with the recreational use of drugs. Most conservatives I know do not think adults should have the freedom to have sex for profit. Most conservatives I know do not think adults should be allowed to decide for themselves what kinds of loving, committed relationships they should enter into.
(Should I go on?) |
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cornopean
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 3576
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| TrespassersW wrote: |
Gladly. Most conservatives I know do not think adults should have the right to alter their perceptions with the recreational use of drugs. Most conservatives I know do not think adults should have the freedom to have sex for profit. Most conservatives I know do not think adults should be allowed to decide for themselves what kinds of loving, committed relationships they should enter into.
(Should I go on?) |
ok...you raised some new ones I hadn't thot of.
but most cons do want to keep drugs illegal.
most cons oppose prostitution
and the last thing about loving committed relationships I am not sure what you mean. is this a reference to same sex marriage? |
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TrespassersW
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 990
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: Conservative Paradox |
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| cornopean wrote: | | TrespassersW wrote: |
Gladly. Most conservatives I know do not think adults should have the right to alter their perceptions with the recreational use of drugs. Most conservatives I know do not think adults should have the freedom to have sex for profit. Most conservatives I know do not think adults should be allowed to decide for themselves what kinds of loving, committed relationships they should enter into.
(Should I go on?) |
ok...you raised some new ones I hadn't thot of.
but most cons do want to keep drugs illegal.
most cons oppose prostitution
and the last thing about loving committed relationships I am not sure what you mean. is this a reference to same sex marriage? |
Yes, many conservatives--and the Republican party as a whole--oppose(s) same-gender unions. (I prefer the term same-gender union over same-sex marriage for a couple of reasons. First off, sex is an act; it's gender we're talking about here. Second, I'm not interested in the question of whether or not we call this or that legal, civil union a "marriage." Do... don't... I don't care. What business the government has in telling adults with whom they can fall in love, I just don't know. Of course, if government steered clear of attaching any special privileges to marriage in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue. |
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