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Docsmitter
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 Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Amin wrote: | whether there is a god or not
"then it is reasonable to assume that he doesn't"
there are so many things we do not know so i think it is reasonable to assume there could be anything |
If you believe in something enough you can even convince yourself its real. The brain cannot seperate whats really happening from whats in your head. This theory was first popularized in the matrix, hence you die in your thoughts, you die. Is it that extreme? No one knows, as you normally wake up before you die... |
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exton
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Amin wrote: |
there are so many things we do not know so i think it is reasonable to assume there could be anything |
It isn't reasonable to believe anything.
It should be quite clear by this point in life, and in history, to all of us, that our minds are capable of inventing ideas that are incorrect, about things that do not exist. They can do that, and they do it all the time.
The fact is that our imaginations are not reliable guides to reality, and so it is unreasonable to consider the things that they come up with as being intrinsically likely to exist.
Now, it is reasonable to assume that anything *could* exist.
However, i don't think that that's relevent.
The fact that something could exist has no bearing one whether or not it does exist, and it has no bearing on its likelihood of existing.
In that anything is possible, it is unreasonable to use that as a basis for justifying a belief.
The belief that a god exists is every bit as reasonable as the belief that I, exton, AM that god. They are both equally logical, and they have the same amount of supporting evidence. |
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exton
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Docsmitter wrote: | | The brain cannot seperate whats really happening from whats in your head. |
It can separate between what it believes is its sensory inputs, and what is going on inside itself.
It cannot corroborate the origins of what it believes to be sensory input.
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This theory was first popularized in the matrix, hence you die in your thoughts, you die. Is it that extreme? No one knows, as you normally wake up before you die... |
"Dying in your thoughts" is a nonsequiter. When you're dead, you don't think - that's what being dead is all about.
And the reason that you don't ever really die in dreams is because you can't; your brain has no experience of dying to draw from (nor can it ever; see above). |
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Lester
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| Exton, I can imagine flying, but I've never done it before, that last part doesn't make sense. |
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exton
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Lester wrote: | | Exton, I can imagine flying, but I've never done it before, that last part doesn't make sense. |
I don't understand the problem; could you be more specific? |
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Docsmitter
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | | Lester wrote: | | Exton, I can imagine flying, but I've never done it before, that last part doesn't make sense. |
I don't understand the problem; could you be more specific? |
End of the line, we know very little comperativly of how the brain works. |
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exton
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Docsmitter wrote: |
End of the line, we know very little comperativly of how the brain works. |
Irrelevent to the matter at hand.
Knowing exactly what does what in the brain is unnecessary for determining whether or not the physical processes in the brain are what give rise to the mind. |
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Lester
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| You said the mind can't conceive death because it's never experienced it, but i can imagine flying and I've never experienced that, so doesn't make sense. |
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exton
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Lester wrote: | | You said the mind can't conceive death because it's never experienced it, but i can imagine flying and I've never experienced that, so doesn't make sense. |
You've never lept off the ground and flown before, but you do know what it feels like to be weightless, to be in freefall. It happens every time you take a big leap.
Moreover, your mind has information on the mechanics of flying, seeing as you've watched birds and airplanes.
The mind doesn't even have that much on death - it's got nothing to work with. Unlike flying, you can't get a handle on the feeling of death by watching other people do it. And if, by some unfortunate chance, your heart stops or something, and you black out, you're still not doing much in the way of experiencing anything; that's the whole point of being "unconscious". |
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joeyjock
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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It isn't for Science to explain to you your spirituality...
Science in it's study of Evolution or the Study of genetics or Cosmology is there to explain how our environment functions
You have every right not to believe in Evolution
just like the Holy Church back in the 16th and the 17th centuries squelched all disent saying that the earth and not the sun was the center of the solar system
... but realize that Intelligent Design or Creationism or what ever you want ot call it is a Flat Earth Society and will always be looked at as such |
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exton
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| joeyjock wrote: | | It isn't for Science to explain to you your spirituality... |
Sure.
But that may or may not matter. Can you show that the "spiritual" exists in some way other than as a figment of your own imagination?
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... but realize that Intelligent Design or Creationism or what ever you want ot call it is a Flat Earth Society and will always be looked at as such |
One can only hope. |
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joeyjock
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: |
Sure.
But that may or may not matter. Can you show that the "spiritual" exists in some way other than as a figment of your own imagination?
One can only hope. |
Nope...
I can't and that's up to me and myself in order to believe
The question is...why then are so many trying so desperately to prove that THEIR version is true? |
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Lester
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| exton wrote: | | Lester wrote: | | You said the mind can't conceive death because it's never experienced it, but i can imagine flying and I've never experienced that, so doesn't make sense. |
You've never lept off the ground and flown before, but you do know what it feels like to be weightless, to be in freefall. It happens every time you take a big leap.
Moreover, your mind has information on the mechanics of flying, seeing as you've watched birds and airplanes.
The mind doesn't even have that much on death - it's got nothing to work with. Unlike flying, you can't get a handle on the feeling of death by watching other people do it. And if, by some unfortunate chance, your heart stops or something, and you black out, you're still not doing much in the way of experiencing anything; that's the whole point of being "unconscious". |
I've been in pain, i've been unconcious, I've had periods of life blacked out, I've had total fear overcome me, I have heard others descriptions of death(the people who died and risen, thanks to electricity) I think i could conjure up a pretty goddamn good idea of death, and even if I got it wrong, the point is not that I asm imagining death right or not, it is that my mind believes that I am dying. |
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exton
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Lester wrote: | | the point is not that I asm imagining death right or not, it is that my mind believes that I am dying. |
I'll grant that. |
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exton
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| joeyjock wrote: |
Nope...
I can't and that's up to me and myself in order to believe
The question is...why then are so many trying so desperately to prove that THEIR version is true? |
I blame science. Science with all its "evidence" and "rigorous proof" has been so successful that people feel insecure in beliefs that aren't substantiated by it.
And they should feel insecure about it, if they care about getting at the truth. |
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